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Old 04-03-03, 04:38 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobHague
Oh wait no you can't. Did you hover your mouse over the "Buy now" button?

DELIVERY 6-7 WEEKS for the 9800 PRO.

For the 9800 (non pro) DELIVERY 10 WEEKS

2 1/2 Months..... lol no thanks.
yeah, it's not like people in the US already have the 9800pro and the blisware rollover has been updated to delivery in 1 week.... oh wait.....
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Old 04-03-03, 05:41 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Beige
yeah, it's not like people in the US already have the 9800pro and the blisware rollover has been updated to delivery in 1 week.... oh wait.....
Well we were talking about the UK remember, i dont live in the US. And the 9800 (non pro) was updated to 10 weeks I will believe those '1 Week' on the 9800pro when i see it in stock.

Dabs have had GfFX 5800 Ultra's on as "1-3 days" for the past 3 weeks yeah those are reliable alright.
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Old 04-03-03, 06:06 AM   #99
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Originally posted by RobHague
Well we were talking about the UK remember, i dont live in the US. And the 9800 (non pro) was updated to 10 weeks I will believe those '1 Week' on the 9800pro when i see it in stock.

Dabs have had GfFX 5800 Ultra's on as "1-3 days" for the past 3 weeks yeah those are reliable alright.
the 9800 non-pro date is irrelevant. 9800 non-pro is not an ATI card and has not been announced by ATI. it's a connect3d card and when they want to put it out is up to them.

people in the US have the 9800pro. it is available - if you really wanted to you could have it shipped fromUS. I don't see any reason why the delivery date is unbelievable, but even if it is wrong it doesn't change the fact that the 9800pro is out.

btw, dabs is crap for making new cards available. they're usually about a month behind. one of the first places to get the 9700pro was overclockers.co.uk, but I wouldn't recommend buying from them.
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Old 04-03-03, 06:10 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Beige
the 9800 non-pro date is irrelevant. 9800 non-pro is not an ATI card and has not been announced by ATI. it's a connect3d card and when they want to put it out is up to them.

people in the US have the 9800pro. it is available - if you really wanted to you could have it shipped fromUS. I don't see any reason why the delivery date is unbelievable, but even if it is wrong it doesn't change the fact that the 9800pro is out.

btw, dabs is crap for making new cards available. they're usually about a month behind. one of the first places to get the 9700pro was overclockers.co.uk, but I wouldn't recommend buying from them.
Oh? I've been pretty happy with stuff i have gotten from overclockersUK. Plus i HAVE tried to get one shipped from the US. I pre-ordered a VisionTek XTASY 9800 PRO on Outpost.com which was due to be shipped on the 31st March. Then they emailed me and told me they didnt know when they were getting some in. I checked back today and it says "Pre-order shipping April 1st" its now April 3rd and it still says it. Ive seen people on ebay selling them for about 320 and saying they will be shipped from the US but id rather just get a card from a proper store (better that way if anything goes wrong).
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Old 04-03-03, 06:54 AM   #101
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Originally posted by RobHague
Oh? I've been pretty happy with stuff i have gotten from overclockersUK. Plus i HAVE tried to get one shipped from the US. I pre-ordered a VisionTek XTASY 9800 PRO on Outpost.com which was due to be shipped on the 31st March. Then they emailed me and told me they didnt know when they were getting some in. I checked back today and it says "Pre-order shipping April 1st" its now April 3rd and it still says it. Ive seen people on ebay selling them for about 320 and saying they will be shipped from the US but id rather just get a card from a proper store (better that way if anything goes wrong).
I ordered a new HDD from overclockers.co.uk. when it arrived it was in an open anti-static bag and had a little yellow sticker suggesting it was a previously returned item. I tried it and it failed constantly. I requested an RMA and returned it in person but it took several phone calls and ~2 months to be refunded.

for comparison, when I needed a refund from dabs it only took a couple of emails (since my credit card number had changed between ordering and returning) and then the refund was cleared within days.

this may just be bad luck and an isolated incident, but overclockers failed me where others have suceeded, so I might as well stick with the ones I trust.
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Old 04-03-03, 07:42 AM   #102
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I've bought stuff from overclockers.co.uk with no problems, but I've heard a lot of people telling me that trying to RMA and return stuff to them is nigh-on impossible.
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Old 04-03-03, 10:19 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobHague
Dabs have had GfFX 5800 Ultra's on as "1-3 days" for the past 3 weeks yeah those are reliable alright.
Well the number available on that has been dropping steadily so I assume people are buying them up.

Dabs is the only place even listing 9800 Pros in the UK that I've come across. In my experience they've been one of the best at getting new products in quick. Hopefully next week we should actually have the things in stock... :-/
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Old 04-03-03, 10:31 AM   #104
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Originally posted by Myrmecophagavir
Well the number available on that has been dropping steadily so I assume people are buying them up.

Dabs is the only place even listing 9800 Pros in the UK that I've come across. In my experience they've been one of the best at getting new products in quick. Hopefully next week we should actually have the things in stock... :-/
dabs were apallingly late with the 9700pro. they say "long lead time expected". go to blisware.com, which I think is the main UK ATI supplier
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Old 04-03-03, 10:52 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by StealthHawk
I was only being semi-serious with my statement. I defintely don't believe ATI paper launching the r9600 and r9200 is doing anyone a service. if you can even call it a paper launch, since there have been no benchmarks. I heard there were going to be benchmarks today....so far there is nothing.

but the point of my post was more to poke fun at CaptainBeige. he said ATI wasn't "standing still" while nvidia pushed DX9 to the mainstream. and yet I don't think that paper launching said cards by a month is anything but standing still. with no benchmarks, that probably means cards won't ship for a few weeks after benchmarks appear, get my drift? in other words, even if benchmarks are released today, we still have a wait ahead of us.
r350's are shipping... and I am sure if you managed to wait over 6 months for the nv30 to actually get to the benchmarking table and another month or two before it actually shipped.. albeit in limited quantities... you can surely wait till the end of the month for the cards in question to zoom off the shelves...

also... interesting read concerning the programmability of the cards... usually the thread meanders on a 'mine is bigger than yours' line in reference to benchmarks...

the nv30 is more programmable... and no.. I highly doubt that the features supported can be used with playable framerates when they are implemented...

that is never the point though.. having a CORE that does what the nv30 does... it is a solid basis for developing more and more powerful products... that was nvidia's intention all along.. sure the card has some drawbacks from a performance standpoint and the PR hyped it to be something it does not appear it can be...

but the fact of the matter is that game devs like to work with a flexible product...

I do disagree with the statement that the r300 BARELY meets dx9 specs.. sure its PR numbers are less than the nv30's in some areas and it goes along with the spec'd limits in other areas... but the card MEETS and EXCEEDS the dx9 spec... perhaps not as much as the nv30.... but it is certainly not BARELY meeting the required specs...

also... yes... certain cards can emulate in software some stuff other cards can do... but the more software you use... the more resources you are using up as well... preferred programming protocol = most work with least code (ok... my motto lol... not representative of other programmers out there)... efficiency is key... of course... if everyone programmed specifically for the dx9 spec instead of individual cards this whole argument would be moot...

but by adopting and supporting the dx9 spec... companies have an obligation... ati currently is following the dx9 spec and in standard... non-optimized paths.... it is faster than the nv30... when teh nv30's OWN paths are used... then the nv30's performance is better...

personally... I do like industry accepted standards to be used... makes the work of everyone involved easier... case in point... game consoles... not many variables there...

the more variables you introduce... teh more work programmers have to do to test compatability... and then they will just say feck it... I will only work on such and such product and perhaps do some beta testing on this other product...

the only ones who lose out are consumers unless you happen to use the product the game dev is using... this is a very divisive strategy IMO... not one that should be encouraged...
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Old 04-03-03, 03:48 PM   #106
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Sazar,

why did you quote me when nothing you said applies to what you quoted?

I never mentioned NV30 nor R350. i've been talking about RV350, which AFAIK is not shipping. ATI only said they are shipping the r9800Pro, which doesn't apply to me, I was never considering it, nor was I ever considering NV30....I don't know where you got that idea from.
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Old 04-06-03, 04:05 AM   #107
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Originally posted by ChrisRay

Thats all fine and dandy for you, But alot of people who buy a Geforce 4 Ti 4400 or a Radeon 9500 Pro will not upgrade these cards for like 3-4 years, So yes its rellevent.
3-4 years?????
You do realize that the rate CPUs are getting faster 3-4 years means that your cPU is ancient. I think most people usually upgrade within 3 years and since grapohic cards that you are talking about (9500 & 5600) are mid level cards people will upgrade quicker owing to the fact that new games will require faster cards.

I myself upgrade video cards every year but I only buy mid level cards. I bought Radeon 7200 a year later (when 8500 was introduced) and bought 8500 when 9700 was introduced (both times I paid less than 100$ for a card that was selling for 399$ a year earlier.

Also your other comment about programmability I think u are forgetting something HLSL . It doesn't matter how "programmable " your gpu is running proprietry/own coding language if the only coding language people are going to use is a 3rd party language designed for a base minimum requirement defined by the said 3rd party. Why do u think nvidia is pushing for Cg?

Keeping in mind the point above a developer is going to code in HLSL or OGL (both of which are supported by "both" companies) except the implementation is different. R300 is said to run "non propritary" i.e. standard DX paths faster than nv30 so which one is better in you opinion now?

What good is a feature that is never used? ATI's TRUFORM and nv30s longer shaders/dynamic looping (maybe i am mistyping) etc look very good on paper but are they really worth paying extra for when they are not being used?
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Old 04-06-03, 05:44 AM   #108
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Originally posted by sapient
I myself upgrade video cards every year but I only buy mid level cards. I bought Radeon 7200 a year later (when 8500 was introduced) and bought 8500 when 9700 was introduced (both times I paid less than 100$ for a card that was selling for 399$ a year earlier.
Aside from the all-in-wonders, no ATI card before the 9700 ever sold for $399, at least in the US.

Quote:
Why do u think nvidia is pushing for Cg?
Because, as we are beginning to find out, the GeForce FX architcture is very complex, and could well be very challenging to code in assembly for (and make it run fast). I think nVidia is pushing Cg because it's the only realistic way to get optimum performance out of an NV3x part on the shader side (in OpenGL, at least...Microsoft's own HLSL compiler seems to work fairly well, though I think MS still should have some integer data types in PS 2.0).

The key point here is that a developer (in theory...depends upon how well-optimized the compiler is...) loses nothing by going for Cg. It compiles just fine for a Radeon 9700, but just does better for NV3x targets.
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