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Old 07-10-07, 11:39 AM   #109
f1f0
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nekrosoft13
thats the point, like badboy said. If nothing else is using the memory, why shouldn't system use it for cache to run your programs faster?
It would be fine if most of the available RAM is used for caching. In reality it's not: Without serious tweaks, the system can easily utilize 512MB+ just after boot, and the rest /is/ cached.

I was a long time Windows software developer, until I switched to Linux about 2 years ago, hence I knew all the ins and outs (read: hidden 'features') of Windows. Microsoft has a bad habit of integrating anything that they thought /might/ be useful to end-users. These 'features' grow richer overtime, as such, Windows more and more becomes a resource-hog, not to mention a trivial bug in one component can sometime be expanded to a system-level exploit. It's just bad engineering.

Having said that, MS will never 'sell' those applications individually, though it is entirely within their capability; that is business, of course. So, why does it strike me odd that some people don't understand why VIsta is so much hated: most of the 'unique' features in Vista (all?) have been done a long time ago by separate applications. Forcing users to migrate over Vista (hence having to pay for things they don't need) just doesn't work, and /will/ cause problems.

The last 'good' Windows OS that I've truly enjoyed is Windows 2000, where no DRM and business-techniques applied. Better than that? It is Windows 95.
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Old 07-10-07, 12:03 PM   #110
Tr1cK
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1f0
It would be fine if most of the available RAM is used for caching. In reality it's not: Without serious tweaks, the system can easily utilize 512MB+ just after boot, and the rest /is/ cached.

I was a long time Windows software developer, until I switched to Linux about 2 years ago, hence I knew all the ins and outs (read: hidden 'features') of Windows. Microsoft has a bad habit of integrating anything that they thought /might/ be useful to end-users. These 'features' grow richer overtime, as such, Windows more and more becomes a resource-hog, not to mention a trivial bug in one component can sometime be expanded to a system-level exploit. It's just bad engineering.

Having said that, MS will never 'sell' those applications individually, though it is entirely within their capability; that is business, of course. So, why does it strike me odd that some people don't understand why VIsta is so much hated: most of the 'unique' features in Vista (all?) have been done a long time ago by separate applications. Forcing users to migrate over Vista (hence having to pay for things they don't need) just doesn't work, and /will/ cause problems.

The last 'good' Windows OS that I've truly enjoyed is Windows 2000, where no DRM and business-techniques applied. Better than that? It is Windows 95.
You are crazy.
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Old 07-10-07, 12:13 PM   #111
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

and he wants to be taken seriously after that last statement.
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Windows 8 the next big failure, right after Windows ME
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Old 07-10-07, 06:56 PM   #112
f1f0
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

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Originally Posted by Tr1cK
You are crazy.
Heh, I wasn't kidding. Mind you, not too long ago I enjoyed DOS and Windows 3.1. It's a sign of nostalgia I guess, but these OSes still have good stuff to learn from.

Any other comments rather than that one-liner?.
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Old 07-10-07, 07:36 PM   #113
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

I still haven't read any good reasons to not use Vista yet.

Not to be confused with the very straight-forward "I just don't want to".
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Old 07-10-07, 07:55 PM   #114
f1f0
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1
I still haven't read any good reasons to not use Vista yet.

Not to be confused with the very straight-forward "I just don't want to".
Since its predecessor XP and some Linux distros are perfectly usable?.

When it comes down to this, ask yourself: "Do I absolutely need a new OS for working, or it's just MS is forcing me to eventually upgrade?". I've stated that most of the features touted in Vista have been found in other applications, long-time XP users will hardly find anything worth in Vista, other than the new UI.

Should anyone give me a list of 'new' features in Vista, please do some research whether those are true innovations, or craptacular immitations.

And don't forget most of the dilemma you've been facing with Windows were resulted by Microsoft's business techniques. Has they made their OS more modular, all these 'inherent problems' (integrated firewall, file manager, window manager... you get the picture) will go away.
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Old 07-10-07, 08:58 PM   #115
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

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Originally Posted by f1f0
Since its predecessor XP and some Linux distros are perfectly usable?.

When it comes down to this, ask yourself: "Do I absolutely need a new OS for working, or it's just MS is forcing me to eventually upgrade?". I've stated that most of the features touted in Vista have been found in other applications, long-time XP users will hardly find anything worth in Vista, other than the new UI.

Should anyone give me a list of 'new' features in Vista, please do some research whether those are true innovations, or craptacular immitations.

And don't forget most of the dilemma you've been facing with Windows were resulted by Microsoft's business techniques. Has they made their OS more modular, all these 'inherent problems' (integrated firewall, file manager, window manager... you get the picture) will go away.
I've been using linux for years (Ubuntu atm), think XP is a fine OS, and still see no reason to not use Vista.

1. Mem. management isn't an issue for me as I have yet to see Vista use more than needed for what it's doing atm. If ram is free, by all means use it. It's what I put it there for.

2. Aero doesn't provide near the functionality of Beryl, but doesn't hurt performance either, and is incredibly smooth and easy on the eyes.

3. Who took from who's ideas aside, I love the photo gallery, improved image editing, along with calander.

4. Every one of my apps works fine in spite of dire predictions, with the single exception of Dark Messiah..won't play nice.
These include all hp software for all-in-one
Photochop elements and essentials
Nero 7
Office 2003
a slew of other tools and games I have fun with.

5. 64bit is inherently more secure than 32 atm, malware wise at least.
6. much improved firewall monitors outbound as well as inbound traffic and the advanced security settings are lightyears ahead of XPs.

7. I like UAC, especially when used in conjunction with standard account privileges. I don't mind typing a passwd to modify/install something. Nice layer of security.

8. The "Bloat" that some like to dote on is a none issue when a gig is pennies these days. Much rather have a 15 gig OS on 350 gb hdd space than a 500 mb OS on a 2 gb hdd.

9. Did I mention memory management? I can pretty easily run my 3 work apps, have a chat client going along with a couple of browsers and e-mail going. Doesn't miss a beat. And that's with only 2 gigs of ram.

Do I think Vista is perfect? No more so than Ubuntu or XP, but I do have much fewer problems with it than Ubuntu or XP.

Very content with it and happy I made the switch.

Peace
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Old 07-10-07, 09:06 PM   #116
Sazar
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1
I've been using linux for years (Ubuntu atm), think XP is a fine OS, and still see no reason to not use Vista.

1. Mem. management isn't an issue for me as I have yet to see Vista use more than needed for what it's doing atm. If ram is free, by all means use it. It's what I put it there for.

2. Aero doesn't provide near the functionality of Beryl, but doesn't hurt performance either, and is incredibly smooth and easy on the eyes.

3. Who took from who's ideas aside, I love the photo gallery, improved image editing, along with calander.

4. Every one of my apps works fine in spite of dire predictions, with the single exception of Dark Messiah..won't play nice.
These include all hp software for all-in-one
Photochop elements and essentials
Nero 7
Office 2003
a slew of other tools and games I have fun with.

5. 64bit is inherently more secure than 32 atm, malware wise at least.
6. much improved firewall monitors outbound as well as inbound traffic and the advanced security settings are lightyears ahead of XPs.

7. I like UAC, especially when used in conjunction with standard account privileges. I don't mind typing a passwd to modify/install something. Nice layer of security.

8. The "Bloat" that some like to dote on is a none issue when a gig is pennies these days. Much rather have a 15 gig OS on 350 gb hdd space than a 500 mb OS on a 2 gb hdd.

9. Did I mention memory management? I can pretty easily run my 3 work apps, have a chat client going along with a couple of browsers and e-mail going. Doesn't miss a beat. And that's with only 2 gigs of ram.

Do I think Vista is perfect? No more so than Ubuntu or XP, but I do have much fewer problems with it than Ubuntu or XP.

Very content with it and happy I made the switch.

Peace
QFT !!!

And, seriously, who DOESN'T love per application volume control
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Old 07-10-07, 09:07 PM   #117
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Does it really matter whether its immitation or not? It's a nice improvement over the last version of Windows. Instant search lets me save time all over the place, very handy. Sidebar can be very useful with the right gadgets. The update center blows the Windows XP update system out of the water by far. Superfetch actually uses your ram rather than letting it sit unused in order to increase the speed of loading programs and reduce the amount of harddrive spinup that's required. The OS is very stable and has a number of administrative tools in order to maintain the speed of it and also identify potential problems.

There's several new applications. Yes they are not the greatest thing since sliced bread but they are nice improvements.
-Windows Mail blows Outlook Express out of the water. The spam filter is fairly powerful.
-Windows Movie Maker can burn DVDs now. Nothing special but an improvement.
-Snippit is a nifty little application that is a good alternative to Alt-Prt Scrn. You can select the whole screen, windows, rectangles, or your own selection and instantly save it as an image file.
-Some may find a use for the speech recognition program... maybe...
-Contact manager that is Operating System wide
-Calendar application

Not to mention you get Media Center and Tablet PC, which obviously weren't features in XP.

DirectX 10 and the prettier interface are really just side features to me. Hardly even true selling points I think.

These are just a small amount of features that make Windows Vista a nice improvement over XP. There are many more. Yes other operating systems may have had similar or the same features. But if you want the functionality of XP with added features, Vista is the answer.

Edit: Haha, we've all become Vista salesmen listing features. But I'm no fanboy, I'm just really pleased with it. I've been a tough critic in the past.
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Old 07-10-07, 09:09 PM   #118
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Media Center in Vista ROCKS. I cannot tell you how many issues I had running it in XP. It wasn't bad but compared to Vista Media Center, it was crap.
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Old 07-10-07, 09:17 PM   #119
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Ya'll don't forget to add Teredo as a feature. Personally, I find teredo an awesome feature, it's ability to bypass firewall rules, policy filtering, and basic perimeter defenses make it an excellent venue for exploitation.

Here's a patch for all you happy Vista users with all the new security mechanisms added to Vista like the often disabled UAC and teredo.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../MS07-038.mspx

Microsoft is downplaying the criticality of the issue (as usual), so stay tuned for more exploitation. I bet the patch simply disables teredo unless explicitly enabled.

Have a gander at the CVE, http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cve...=CVE-2007-1535
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Old 07-10-07, 09:20 PM   #120
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Default Re: Vista and Good reasons why it's just not needed. Yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilghost
Ya'll don't forget to add Teredo as a feature. Personally, I find teredo an awesome feature, it's ability to bypass firewall rules, policy filtering, and basic perimeter defenses make it an excellent venue for exploitation.

Here's a patch for all you happy Vista users with all the new security mechanisms added to Vista like the often disabled UAC and teredo.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../MS07-038.mspx

Microsoft is downplaying the criticality of the issue (as usual), so stay tuned for more exploitation. I bet the patch simply disables teredo unless explicitly enabled.

Have a gander at the CVE, http://www.cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cve...=CVE-2007-1535
So Ubuntu on the desktop, for the average end-user, has no such exploits, drivers totally solid, media apps solid..no issues at all perfecto?
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