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Old 07-07-07, 03:01 PM   #1
nekrosoft13
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Default AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Not that long ago during an AMD press conference AMD's executive vice president Henri Richard took to the stage to deliver a complete and no holds barred trashing of Intel for a series of what AMD executives claim to be unethical business and marketing practices. However, now that Barcelona seems to have been pushed back considerably and seems underwhelming in clockspeed and performance is AMD making a 180-degree turn in that regard?

For some reason the AMD propaganda machine has been switched into high gear when it became obvious that Barcelona will not be launched in time, nor will it deliver the performance that is expected from it. What does AMD's marketing department, under supervision of the same Henri Richard mentioned above, resort to? You guessed it, the same unethical practices they accused Intel of earlier. How is that for a prime example of corporate hypocrisy?

In corporate documents sent to their prospective clients and advertisements that were even featured in the Wall Street Journal AMD uses both fictitious processors as well as comparisons to outdated Intel processor benchmarks to make their own results look favorable. The benchmarks show processors such as a 2.6GHz quad-core Barcelona, which will not be available neither at launch, nor shortly after, compared to Intel Xeon 5355 and 5160 processors with outdated benchmark data.

In reality the phantom 2.6GHz quad-core Barcelona appears to barely keep pace with a 2.66GHz Xeon 5355 when running the SPECint_rate2006 benchmark discussed here. However the fastest Barcelona processor we will see in September is only a 2.0GHz, not a 2.6GHz, which will be severely handicapped in performance when compared to Intel's offerings. AMD's situation appears more abysmal when you factor in that Intel already launched a faster Xeon 5365 at 3GHz clockspeed back in late April, widening the gap in AMD's comparisons.

So, is this simply a cherry picking of benchmark results and then some harmless manipulation of data to make a point during a sales pitch, something a well informed journalist would poke holes into upon first glance? Well, no, there is more to it, this is a deliberate act to misinform their prospective clients, and the general public, as said journalist has to be well aware of the current performance levels of processors and what is currently shipping or not. I think it is downright deceptive, bordering on criminal, when an executive vice president during an earlier press event condemns Intel of practices that have yet to be proven in court but then indulges in similar practices just to be able to sell an underperforming product.
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1856/
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Old 07-07-07, 04:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

Small companies behave many times much worse than major players.

Take e.g. Apple and Microsoft. Apple lies all the time. Apple is allowed to do anything. Microsoft e.g. is not allowed in EU to distribute WMP, while Apple can lock you inside their iTunes and DRM monopoly freely. AMD can lie months ahead about R600, to prevent potential 8800GTX buyers getting NVIDIA. And nobody brings them to court, as they are small fish.

Behaviour of large corporations seems to me much more ethical than small ones.. In our "social" (EU) system we punish those who are successful, being it progressive taxation or antimonopoly (=being "too" profitable aka good) laws :-(

That is why I would never ever buy again from AMD/ATI/Apple. I do not want to support their business and unethical behaviour.
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Old 07-07-07, 09:54 PM   #3
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Thumbs up Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

Radekhulan, i agree with you here. Nothing more to add.

I was waiting for the R600, thinking about the theoretical performance, & delaying the purchase of my G80.

Well, also, it wasn't a real option for me in the beginning, cause there was a bug with BR2, but, in spite of, i was delaying my purchase due to the R600.

Anyway, never marry with any brand.
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Old 07-07-07, 11:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

Go with what your gut is telling you. That's my philosophy behind buying any product that doesn't have competition. Most of the time, newer stuff is overhyped and overpriced, so going with good reliable technolgy is almost always the way to go.

AMD had better pull it together.
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Old 07-07-07, 11:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Originally Posted by Madpistol
Go with what your gut is telling you. That's my philosophy behind buying any product that doesn't have competition. Most of the time, newer stuff is overhyped and overpriced, so going with good reliable technolgy is almost always the way to go.

AMD had better pull it together.
Spot on Madpistol. I always preached that I would never own a intel cpu but quickly changed my tune. Once I really read between the lines and started to actually pay attention to what AMD couldn't do(that was deliver anything comparable to intel) I switched because my gut told me AMD was not going to come through anytime soon. I'm glad I did.
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Old 07-08-07, 09:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Originally Posted by radekhulan
Small companies behave many times much worse than major players.

Take e.g. Apple and Microsoft. Apple lies all the time. Apple is allowed to do anything. Microsoft e.g. is not allowed in EU to distribute WMP, while Apple can lock you inside their iTunes and DRM monopoly freely. AMD can lie months ahead about R600, to prevent potential 8800GTX buyers getting NVIDIA. And nobody brings them to court, as they are small fish.

Behaviour of large corporations seems to me much more ethical than small ones.. In our "social" (EU) system we punish those who are successful, being it progressive taxation or antimonopoly (=being "too" profitable aka good) laws :-(

That is why I would never ever buy again from AMD/ATI/Apple. I do not want to support their business and unethical behaviour.
I so agree man. I waited and waited for the R600 because I was not going SLI and wanted the fastest 1 card solution I could get. Then when I saw the numbers from the first R600 benchmarks all it did was piss me off that I have believed the hype, when I could have had a 8800GTX all that time. Hyping a product that will not deliver is the worst thing a company can do IMO.
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Old 07-08-07, 11:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Originally Posted by radekhulan
Small companies behave many times much worse than major players.

Take e.g. Apple and Microsoft. Apple lies all the time. Apple is allowed to do anything. Microsoft e.g. is not allowed in EU to distribute WMP, while Apple can lock you inside their iTunes and DRM monopoly freely. AMD can lie months ahead about R600, to prevent potential 8800GTX buyers getting NVIDIA. And nobody brings them to court, as they are small fish.

Behaviour of large corporations seems to me much more ethical than small ones.. In our "social" (EU) system we punish those who are successful, being it progressive taxation or antimonopoly (=being "too" profitable aka good) laws :-(

That is why I would never ever buy again from AMD/ATI/Apple. I do not want to support their business and unethical behaviour.
I strongly strongly disagree, Microsoft cuts off whoever they want and Intel is just as bad if not worse. Both companies rarely deliver what they say they are regardless of if the smaller company does or not. MS for example claimed Linux was using 200 something of their patents, yet refused to say which ones, were there any? Absolutely not, they just wanted to stir a poor Linux image. Not to mention how many areas they claimed they'd cover in Vista that were dropped.

And Intel is even worse, vender lock ins are outrageously unethical. Why do you think Dell only sold Intel during the a64 era, what about apple, or sony? It definitely wasn't performance or even price. A strong maybe towards the unability to fabricate the amount of chips needed, but now that dell has picked up AMD I highly doubt that.

Bash the little guys while they're behind, but regardless, even if you are an Intel fan girl or boy, AMD keeps Intel in check. Do you think there would be a C2D without the X2/Athlon series? Definitely not.

Also, the 2900XT is not a flagship card, and nor will the K10 optys released in august, AMD doesn't hold the same release line as Intel or Nvidia.
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Old 07-08-07, 12:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Originally Posted by a12ctic
I strongly strongly disagree, Microsoft cuts off whoever they want and Intel is just as bad if not worse. Both companies rarely deliver what they say they are regardless of if the smaller company does or not. MS for example claimed Linux was using 200 something of their patents, yet refused to say which ones, were there any? Absolutely not, they just wanted to stir a poor Linux image. Not to mention how many areas they claimed they'd cover in Vista that were dropped.

And Intel is even worse, vender lock ins are outrageously unethical. Why do you think Dell only sold Intel during the a64 era, what about apple, or sony? It definitely wasn't performance or even price. A strong maybe towards the unability to fabricate the amount of chips needed, but now that dell has picked up AMD I highly doubt that.

Bash the little guys while they're behind, but regardless, even if you are an Intel fan girl or boy, AMD keeps Intel in check. Do you think there would be a C2D without the X2/Athlon series? Definitely not.

Also, the 2900XT is not a flagship card, and nor will the K10 optys released in august, AMD doesn't hold the same release line as Intel or Nvidia.
The 2900 is NOT thier flagship card!?!? Then what IS there flaghip card right now? That was not a very smart statement... Their high end part, car, home, whatever is ALWAYS thier "Flagship" part...
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Old 07-08-07, 12:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

I can't see it getting better for AMD to be honest. Intels release schedule is very aggresive and all their new peoducts seem to be on time. AMD well....
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Old 07-08-07, 12:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Originally Posted by nrdstrm
The 2900 is NOT thier flagship card!?!? Then what IS there flaghip card right now? That was not a very smart statement... Their high end part, car, home, whatever is ALWAYS thier "Flagship" part...
Well, it's not the most powerful card they plan on releasing. Its an XT, it was meant to compare to the GT series of cards, not the Ultra/GTX.
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Old 07-08-07, 12:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Originally Posted by a12ctic
Also, the 2900XT is not a flagship card, and nor will the K10 optys released in august
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Old 07-08-07, 03:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

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Well, it's not the most powerful card they plan on releasing. Its an XT, it was meant to compare to the GT series of cards, not the Ultra/GTX.
I don't see your reasoning here. It is the most powerful card they've released at the moment. Thus, it is their flagship component. They can promise that they'll one day release an "XTXTXTXTX" version that will mop the floor with the 8800 GTX/Ultra, but until they release it, the XT IS their flaship component.
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