Why NV30 beats 9700 Pro?

Switch · 08-20-02, 12:22 PM

Linkage
Anyone looked at this before? The 9700 Pro only handles one texture per pipe. Now even the Ti4600 does two. Should the NV30 follow along with Nvidia's 2 textures (or possibly more) per pipeline, wouldn't this give a pretty large increase in performance?

-=DVS=- · 08-20-02, 12:52 PM

Lol you proof nothing , noone knows how much TMUS NV30 gonna have, ATI could have followed they Radeon 8500 road but they did not same may happen with Nvidia

But sure it would be cool if NV30 had 2 or more TMUS per pipe

TMU = Texture Unite ?

Switch · 08-20-02, 01:16 PM

I was simply asking a question. I wasn't trying to prove anything.

jbirney · 08-20-02, 02:35 PM

The real question is do they have enough real bandwidth to feed an extra TMU? And dont quote that BS 48 GB number as that is effective under special cases...

Fotis · 08-20-02, 03:24 PM

I wish nvidia would release nv30's specs!!!
Radeon 9700 has 110million trans and nv30 has 120million.Don't flame me I'm no expert but can you fit 8 more TMU's in 10 million trans?

legion88 · 08-20-02, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Switch
Linkage
Anyone looked at this before? The 9700 Pro only handles one texture per pipe. Now even the Ti4600 does two. Should the NV30 follow along with Nvidia's 2 textures (or possibly more) per pipeline, wouldn't this give a pretty large increase in performance?

It will be faster (assuming everything else is equal) but "large increase" is stretching it due to bandwidth limitations. I'm assuming you are comparing NV30 to R300 when asking the question.

Switch · 08-20-02, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by legion88

It will be faster (assuming everything else is equal) but "large increase" is stretching it due to bandwidth limitations. I'm assuming you are comparing NV30 to R300 when asking the question.

Yes, I was comparing NV30 to R300. What kind of bandwidth would be required to run something like this? Surely it's not too much more than what the R300 has?

ZenOps · 08-20-02, 07:20 PM

When Nvidia releases the NV30 it will be faster, it just makes good marketing sense. If they made a NV30 today and it was slower than a Radeon 9700, Nvidia would never release it.

Nvidia has always prided themselves on being the fastest if not having the best visual quality or being the cheapest.

I don't think Nvidia was planning on the Radeon 9700 .15 micron chip being clocked at 325Mhz, I think most people were guessing closer to 200 to 250Mhz (about Pahrelia speeds)

The specs for the Radeon 9700 and NV30 are very close, both are DX9 floating point parts.. Almost indistinguishable actually, except that the NV30 is a .13 part and requires DDRII both of which are very immature technologies right now.

A chip running 325MHz at .13 is not any faster than a .15 chip running 325 mhz (although it will be cooler and consume less power)

Just a guesstimate, but I'd say the NV30 core has to be at least 400Mhz if Nvidia wants to be assured a solid speed crown over the Radeon 9700. Its gonna be tough, Nvidia for the first time playing catchup.

And ATi can move the 9700 to .13 and DDRII anytime they need to. They are probably just waiting to see what Nvidia's response is.

08-20-02, 09:15 PM

you actually think nvidia would miss a 6 month time period of having no new card out just because their card wasn't faster? that is not a good business practice in the least, and i'm sure investors would lose much faith(more than they already have

)

we do know NV30 will have at least 8 texture pipes

Lamentation · 08-21-02, 12:39 AM

"And ATi can move the 9700 to .13 and DDRII anytime they need to. They are probably just waiting to see what Nvidia's response is."

Wow, can the leap tall buildings in a single bound too? Why don't they just skip .13 and go to .05.

jbirney · 08-21-02, 07:18 AM

The R9700 supposedly can all ready support DDRII. However the move to .13u is not easy yet. As time goes buy the kinks of the .13u will be worked out and any other complex chips built will be likely to have less issues then being built while the .13u process is still "new".

ZenOps · 08-21-02, 11:27 AM

Yes, it can leap tall buildings too..

But really, NVdiia has locked itself into using a very immature .13 process. They cannot go back now and make a .15 NV30 part to try and make a feasable number of chips at a reasonable price, its too late for that (It would take months for a .15 design, an intolerable delay time).

Intel and AMD had huge headaches moving to .13 and it looks like its no different for Nvidia.

ATi can sit back a bit, wait for the technology to mature, and jump in whenever they want, there is no pressure or rush to get a .13 chip out until there is some semblance of competition from Nvidia.

Interesting read: http://www.lostcircuits.com/video/nvidia_nv30/

08-20-02, 12:22 PM	#1
Switch Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 149	Why NV30 beats 9700 Pro Linkage Anyone looked at this before? The 9700 Pro only handles one texture per pipe. Now even the Ti4600 does two. Should the NV30 follow along with Nvidia's 2 textures (or possibly more) per pipeline, wouldn't this give a pretty large increase in performance?

08-20-02, 12:52 PM	#2
-=DVS=- .:. Lafiel .:. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outerspace Posts: 3,009	Lol you proof nothing , noone knows how much TMUS NV30 gonna have, ATI could have followed they Radeon 8500 road but they did not same may happen with Nvidia But sure it would be cool if NV30 had 2 or more TMUS per pipe TMU = Texture Unite ? __________________ *.:. Lian Li X500FX .:. i7 2600k* .:. PNY GTX 680 .:. Corsair DDR3 8GB .:. Silverstone 800W PSU .:. Asus P8P67-M Pro .:. Crucial M4 SSD 512GB .:.**

08-21-02, 12:39 AM	#10
Lamentation Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: TN Posts: 35	"And ATi can move the 9700 to .13 and DDRII anytime they need to. They are probably just waiting to see what Nvidia's response is." Wow, can the leap tall buildings in a single bound too? Why don't they just skip .13 and go to .05. __________________ num-lock on caps-lock off

08-21-02, 11:27 AM	#12
ZenOps Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9	Yes, it can leap tall buildings too.. But really, NVdiia has locked itself into using a very immature .13 process. They cannot go back now and make a .15 NV30 part to try and make a feasable number of chips at a reasonable price, its too late for that (It would take months for a .15 design, an intolerable delay time). Intel and AMD had huge headaches moving to .13 and it looks like its no different for Nvidia. ATi can sit back a bit, wait for the technology to mature, and jump in whenever they want, there is no pressure or rush to get a .13 chip out until there is some semblance of competition from Nvidia. Interesting read: http://www.lostcircuits.com/video/nvidia_nv30/ Last edited by ZenOps; 08-21-02 at 11:32 AM.

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08-20-02, 01:16 PM	#3
Switch Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 149	I was simply asking a question. I wasn't trying to prove anything.

08-20-02, 02:35 PM	#4
jbirney Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,430	The real question is do they have enough real bandwidth to feed an extra TMU? And dont quote that BS 48 GB number as that is effective under special cases...

08-20-02, 03:24 PM	#5
Fotis Radeforce GTX7970 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 1,346	I wish nvidia would release nv30's specs!!! Radeon 9700 has 110million trans and nv30 has 120million.Don't flame me I'm no expert but can you fit 8 more TMU's in 10 million trans?

08-20-02, 07:20 PM	#8
ZenOps Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9	When Nvidia releases the NV30 it will be faster, it just makes good marketing sense. If they made a NV30 today and it was slower than a Radeon 9700, Nvidia would never release it. Nvidia has always prided themselves on being the fastest if not having the best visual quality or being the cheapest. I don't think Nvidia was planning on the Radeon 9700 .15 micron chip being clocked at 325Mhz, I think most people were guessing closer to 200 to 250Mhz (about Pahrelia speeds) The specs for the Radeon 9700 and NV30 are very close, both are DX9 floating point parts.. Almost indistinguishable actually, except that the NV30 is a .13 part and requires DDRII both of which are very immature technologies right now. A chip running 325MHz at .13 is not any faster than a .15 chip running 325 mhz (although it will be cooler and consume less power) Just a guesstimate, but I'd say the NV30 core has to be at least 400Mhz if Nvidia wants to be assured a solid speed crown over the Radeon 9700. Its gonna be tough, Nvidia for the first time playing catchup. And ATi can move the 9700 to .13 and DDRII anytime they need to. They are probably just waiting to see what Nvidia's response is.

08-20-02, 09:15 PM	#9
StealthHawk Guest Posts: n/a	you actually think nvidia would miss a 6 month time period of having no new card out just because their card wasn't faster? that is not a good business practice in the least, and i'm sure investors would lose much faith(more than they already have ) we do know NV30 will have at least 8 texture pipes

08-21-02, 07:18 AM	#11
jbirney Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,430	The R9700 supposedly can all ready support DDRII. However the move to .13u is not easy yet. As time goes buy the kinks of the .13u will be worked out and any other complex chips built will be likely to have less issues then being built while the .13u process is still "new".