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Old 08-21-02, 10:22 AM   #13
sancheuz
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Exactly. You guys are right. The radeon is extremely fast. The nv30 will be extremely fast. But it seems to me that it will be a wiser choice to wait for the nv30, unless, you have lots of money and then you just get yourself a r300 and then the nv30. But i really think that the nv30 will be faster, But you know who cares if its 5 percent or 10 percent faster. GAmes wont use that speed for a long time. I really dont think someone with a geforce4 ti should be in a hurry to get a radeon 9700 though, unless you unnesesarily want to play a ut2k3 at 1600 and at 4x aa ect ect and all at 100 fps +.
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Old 08-21-02, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
The nv30 will be extremely fast. But it seems to me that it will be a wiser choice to wait for the nv30
The problem with this logic is that there will always be something faster right around the corner. So in theory you should never buy anything as if you wait just a bit longer you will get something better... but we all know we have to suck it up and get something sometime.

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I really dont think someone with a geforce4 ti should be in a hurry to get a radeon 9700 though, unless you unnesesarily want to play a ut2k3 at 1600 and at 4x aa ect ect and all at 100 fps +.
This is true for the NV30 as well.

You do realize that all of the special features (DX9, ect) will most likely barly be used. GF3 has been out for a long time. How many fully DX8 games are there out now? Yea you can cont them on one hand. Same thing will happen with the NV30. It will take a long time for DX9 games to show up.. So the only reason to buy one is to take advantage of running the games you own today with more IQ settings cranked (AF, AA)
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Old 08-21-02, 12:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by sancheuz
Exactly. You guys are right. The radeon is extremely fast. The nv30 will be extremely fast. But it seems to me that it will be a wiser choice to wait for the nv30, unless, you have lots of money and then you just get yourself a r300 and then the nv30. But i really think that the nv30 will be faster, But you know who cares if its 5 percent or 10 percent faster. GAmes wont use that speed for a long time. I really dont think someone with a geforce4 ti should be in a hurry to get a radeon 9700 though, unless you unnesesarily want to play a ut2k3 at 1600 and at 4x aa ect ect and all at 100 fps +.
Frankly San- if you want (i say want, because no one really needs this, do they? ) a next generation card like the R9700, it's pointless to wait 4 months or so to compare it with the NV30. If the NV30 was just around the corner- sure- wait it out- but we're talking X-mas at the SOONEST, with many people thinking it won't be available until 2003.

And what are you waitinf for? Even according to the Nvidia PR dept, the R9700 already is delivering everything the NV30 has promised. Remember the NV30 was meant to compete w/ the R9700, they were in development at the same time. One compnay went w/ the .15 micron process, and the other wanted the advantages of .13 micron. But w/ the .13 micron choice came delay after delay. This card was originally planned for a fall release. Don't expect too much from the NV30, it is just too late in the game for Nvidia to make it much better than they originally anticipated. If you really want a next generation card, and don't want the R9700, and don't mind waiting, a much safer bet would be the NV35. Nvidia is going to lay it all on the table with that one. Have no doubts, the NV35 will mean business...

But they are just rushing the NV30 too quickly at this point.

None of this applies if you're not in the market for a top of the line card, just felt like putting in my .0000002

As far as what to expect from the NV30:
Quote:
In Quake III Arena in 1280x1024 with 4x FSAA enabled, NV30 is going to be 2.5 times faster than the GeForce4 Ti4600.
In The Next Doom the board based on NV30 will be able to show 3.5 times or or even more of the performance the current Nvidia`s flagman has to offer us there.
NV30 will score three times more than the GeForce4 Ti4600 in 3D Mark 2001.
Effective HQ Pixel Fillrate (2x anisotropic filtering enabled) of the newcomer with will be about 2.7 times more than that of the fastest NV25.
As for pixel-shading speed, it will be 4 times of the NV25.
Nvidia claims that its upcoming GPU is capable of processing 200 millions triangles per second.
http://www.reactorcritical.com/index.shtml#l1205

Of course, all this does is bring it up to the level of the R9700. Even giving Nvidia the benifet of the doubt, lets say the NV30 will be 10% faster. Is that worth waiting 4 months for? And you'll be waiting for rushed hardeware, and rushed drivers? As opposed to the mature drivers on the R9700, which from the reviews are quite impressive already?

Of course, like I said, it doesn't really matter if you're not in the market for a high end card. It's just that so rairly does high end hardeware justify the price, and the R9700 actually seems close to doing that
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Old 08-21-02, 01:27 PM   #16
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Okay, but i'm going to wait for the nv30. If you wish you can go ahead and get the 9700, but, your going to be feeling bad when the nv30 comes out, with some incredible feature that all the critics are raving about and you blew your budget on the 9700. You understand what i'm saying? Obviously this is a really a fragile subject, but i respect all your wise opinions. What is true is that we are certainly entering into a new 3d era with unlimitled possibilities thanks to the incredible hardware from companies like ati and nvidia.... ;-)
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Old 08-21-02, 01:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by sancheuz
Okay, but i'm going to wait for the nv30. If you wish you can go ahead and get the 9700, but, your going to be feeling bad when the nv30 comes out, with some incredible feature that all the critics are raving about and you blew your budget on the 9700. You understand what i'm saying? Obviously this is a really a fragile subject, but i respect all your wise opinions. What is true is that we are certainly entering into a new 3d era with unlimitled possibilities thanks to the incredible hardware from companies like ati and nvidia.... ;-)
WOW- I see you just glazed over when presented with facts from Nvidias own source, if it's not what you want to hear.

Out of curiosity, just what are the ".....incredible feature that all the critics are raving about and you blew your budget on the 9700."

So far, Nvida has kept it a secret
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Old 08-21-02, 02:05 PM   #18
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with some incredible feature that all the critics are raving about and you blew your budget on the 9700.
Ok not to be a butt head, but what do you mean about incredible feature that it will have over the R9700? Say I got $400 bucks just burning a hole in my pocket. Give me vaild reasons to wait.

If the NV30 is 10% faster am I gonning to notice it in games that I play? no I wont. Btw these same critic have thrown their weight behind the R9700 as well. But please provide me a list of features that it has over the R9700....


Again you may find some very good points to wait so thats why I am asking this here...
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Old 08-21-02, 02:17 PM   #19
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I'm waiting because no games require a 9700, or an NV30 for that matter...
In no way am I running out and buying a 9700 or NV30 asap...
I waited 6mos after the GF3s came out to get one, and I'll wait another 6mos from now when a game comes out that makes me upgrade...
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Old 08-21-02, 02:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
I'm waiting because no games require a 9700, or an NV30 for that matter...
In no way am I running out and buying a 9700 or NV30 asap...
I waited 6mos after the GF3s came out to get one, and I'll wait another 6mos from now when a game comes out that makes me upgrade...
Ahhhh... the common sense is refreshing. Waiting is easy, especially when the prices are so high. So something better might be out by then, but that makes what you wanted initially that much cheaper (hopefully). I sure as heck won't be getting either of these cards, or a Hammer, or any such thing, for a while. Doesn't anyone else around here have financial responsibilities, or is everyone made of money?
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Old 08-21-02, 03:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by sancheuz
My "logic" is correct. There is NO NEED to upgrade right now if you have a geforce3. Once again, there is no need to upgrade right now if you have a geforce3.
There are plenty of people that held off from buying the GF3/8500 generation to wait for this DX9 generation. Why should they wait longer still when a very capable (um... awesome) product is available now?
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It makes sense, that if you have a geforce 3 or above right now, you dont rush and get a radeon 9700, when in three months a superior card will arrive.
First off, it's more like four to five months, not three. Second, doesn't it make sense to buy a very capable card that might be nearly equal to what comes out five months later, rather than wait five months and buy a card that is very likely outclassed by a card only two months away??
Quote:
John Carmack and everybody else that has used the previewed the nv30 under NDA from nvidia(anandtech, nvmax, beyond3d, nvnews, ect. ect.) has said that the nv30 will be faster than the 9700.
The NV30 doesn't exist in a physical form yet. John Carmack has never touched an NV30, because there is no NV30 to touch.
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Old 08-21-02, 03:14 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Richthofen
point is ATI still is not on a 6 month cycle.
Do not expect a R350 for the first quarter 2003.
It won't happen.
2nd quater will be the timeframe when the R350 arrives and keep in mind that the NV30 delay has nothing to do with NV35.
I think that once the NV30 is released, Nvidia is on a 4 month cycle until the NV35 like with the GF3TI and GF4TI series.
NVIDIA historically takes roughly a year between new core architectures (NV10 to NV15, NV15 to NV20, NV20 to NV25, NV25 to NV30). What makes you think they'll be able to make the next core in only four months??

I think you're forgetting about all the true "six-month" refreshes: GF 256 DDR, GF2 Ultra, GF3 Ti, NV28. You might see a faster clocked NV30 next spring, but don't look for the NV35 before late next fall.
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Old 08-21-02, 04:32 PM   #23
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Jesus Christ people. I hope nobody got offended because of my comments. Once again, my only point and the only thing I meant to say from the beggining, is that if a person has a good video card right now, it would be better to wait till nvidia announces the nv30 and what it has, so that you can then compare it the 9700 and make a wise choice in which card to spend 400 dollars in. It doesnt matter if its 3, 4, or 5 months away. 400 is alot of money. If I spend 400 dollars, I want the best of the best and only the best.
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Old 08-21-02, 04:34 PM   #24
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Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
There are plenty of people that held off from buying the GF3/8500 generation to wait for this DX9 generation. Why should they wait longer still when a very capable (um... awesome) product is available now?
That then means that that person doesnt have a geforce3 therefore they should upgrade. I was reffering to those that already do have a geforce3 or above. They wont need to upgrade for a 4 to 5 months.
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