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Old 09-03-02, 04:03 AM   #49
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This is amazing, if any of you understand how business works you'll understand that Nvidia have a serious problem for which i now doubt very much that they will be able recover. ATI have released a product that has blown every competitor clean out of the water - for the very first time. The harsh reality for Nvidia now is that ATI will get stronger and stronger through the reputation of this wonder product, and it is indeed a wonder product. By the time the NV30 is released ATI will already be farther down the development line with their next product the r350. What does all this mean???? Nvidia will have to settle for second place
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Old 09-03-02, 07:00 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by DBY
This is amazing, if any of you understand how business works you'll understand that Nvidia have a serious problem for which i now doubt very much that they will be able recover. ATI have released a product that has blown every competitor clean out of the water - for the very first time. The harsh reality for Nvidia now is that ATI will get stronger and stronger through the reputation of this wonder product, and it is indeed a wonder product. By the time the NV30 is released ATI will already be farther down the development line with their next product the r350. What does all this mean???? Nvidia will have to settle for second place
LOL. Talk about naive. I seriously doubt this will stop nVidia from leapfrogging ATI. ATI has just made the jump to the new technology a bit ahead of nVidia, but this isn't anything that they haven't done before (Radeon -> GF2GTS, 8500 -> GF3). The only real difference here is that the new product is a bit further in advance of nVidia's reply part, and the technology is far enough advanced over the current parts on the market to look really good. The fact that both companies have been working on similar parts (features / performance) tells me that both were (and are, in nVidia's case) looking to a major leap in this next generation. It also says that the one-upmanship will continue, at least for the time being.
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Old 09-03-02, 07:15 AM   #51
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LOL, i wouldnt say ATI are a little ahead of Nvidia, id say more like considerably ahead, but we'll see, my prediction is ATI will rule the roost for years to come whilst Nvidia will continue to scratch their heads!
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Old 09-03-02, 08:41 AM   #52
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How 'bout this: Wait for the NV30 launch and then snag a 9700 (with mature drivers and maybe a great game bundle) for less than $300.



(me/ thinks arguing about graphics cards is akin to arguing about religion)
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Old 09-03-02, 09:13 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by SnakeEyes
ATI has just made the jump to the new technology a bit ahead of nVidia, but this isn't anything that they haven't done before (Radeon -> GF2GTS, 8500 -> GF3).
Didn't the GTS come out before the Radeon, and the GF3 before the 8500??

That's the whole point... NVIDIA was always first with a particular generation (GTS - DX7, GF3 - DX8), and while ATI might have released a card a bit more advanced, they were late to the table. And this time the table is turned. The NV30 may be a bit more advanced, but it is substantially behind (much like the 8500 was to the GF3).

If this allowed NVIDIA to build its reputation and get to where it is today (or was yesterday), then why couldn't it do the same for ATI?

I'm still trying to figure out how the 9700 coming out months ahead of the NV30 is in any way similar to the 8500 coming out months behind the GF3...
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Old 09-03-02, 09:23 AM   #54
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Exactly Mr Dickus, the tables have turned. Byt the time the NV30 arrives the r300 price will drop, even if the NV30 is a little more powerful the r300, it will outsell on price alone. Then comes along the r350 or even the r400 not long after, so unless Nvidia are able to launch 2 outstanding cards between now and the r350/r400 the number one spot will belong to ATI.
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Old 09-03-02, 10:20 AM   #55
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oooooooo, look at that wonder product!
I can take advantage of ALL it's features with what game now???
HAHAHA

Seriously, it's gonna be the same when the NV30 comes out, ZERO games will take advantage of EITHER card until the EARLIEST Christmas season 2003 (and don't say Doom3 plz, Carmack said GF1 can play it well).

I'm not buying either card for a LONG time...
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Old 09-03-02, 10:26 AM   #56
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I have the 9700Pro now, and it is a rather nice card... it is an improvement over my Ti4600.

I can actually use high quality aniso and aa without a slideshow.
UT framerates are disturbingly weird compared to my Ti4600 though.

I used to average about 150 fps in UT with Ti4600.. from 130-180 fps depending on the map...

With the 9700 Pro I go from 70-450+

Its weird.. I shouldnt ever hit below 100 with the 9700 Pro.. yet in oldschool maps like Lavagiant a lot of areas will be around 70fps... walk into tunnel and have 400fps.
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Old 09-03-02, 10:33 AM   #57
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That is bizarre!!!!! But i wouldnt worry, im sure the the following drivers will sort out any probs

Regarding Matthy comments, if you want to make your games look better, run at smoother at higher resolutions then surely its time to invest!!!!!
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Old 09-03-02, 11:06 AM   #58
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well, I'm playing every game I own at 1280 on my GF3 just fine thanks...even new games, so I don't see the point in putting down another $300+ for a vid card...

You want to have bragging rights, and have the cash to blow, go4it! I'm not gonna convince you otherwise, but I see no reason for me to upgrade at this time (especially now that I just dropped a huge down payment off on a car...)
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Old 09-03-02, 11:50 AM   #59
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UT2k3 is a good enough reason for me to upgrade...

Whether or not you have yourself convinced, Ive gone from a GF3, to a Ti500, to a Ti4600, to a 9700...

And, there IS a big difference in playability of games. If you are content with slow framerates at mediocre IQ thats fine, but dont pretend its bragging rights.
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Old 09-03-02, 12:24 PM   #60
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I think my point was misunderstood- I was showing the pattern of leapfrogging. (Not that the GF2 was better than the Radeon, etc., more the other way around, mainly speaking of features, since performance usually ended up the other way, imo because of ATI's driver problems at the time).

I don't see the issue being a problem now:

As far as the fact that ATI got the Big One out before nVidia this time. This is arguable. ATI got the features / speed out first. nVidia is gonna get the features / speed, but ALSO the jump to the new process out first. ATI is looking to make that particular jump in the future, and I sincerely expect that when they do it'll be back to business as usual (meaning, just like GF2-> Radeon, ATI will probably have a feature or two that is above the current nV card, but the nV will have the performance crown still..)

Guess we'll have to wait on the last one. Partly because it's still a vaporware product on nV's part, and partly because until both execute their future products beyond R300 and nV30, we just can't know. Unless someone here's got a REAL Crystal Ball.

BTW. The fact that nV had GF2 / GF3 out first (big leaps, really, over prior products), that didn't kill ATI did it? In fact, look at the R9700 as proof. Just because ATI did it this time doesn't prove anything at all for the future.

(PS. This series of posts has practically nothing to say about what I think of the 9700- I'd probably jump on the Pro in a heartbeat if I had the money right now. Of course, if I could afford to do that, I'd probably jump ship again as soon as nV's next card came out, since always having the latest and greatest is neat, just not feasible for me. )
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