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Old 08-07-07, 09:03 AM   #97
nekrosoft13
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

you don't need 4gb to feel snappy

my family pc has 1gb and runs vista, its perfectly fine for everything(web, pictures, video, dvr, burning, etc...) except gaming. It runs on geforce 6200.
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Old 08-07-07, 09:15 AM   #98
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by nekrosoft13
you don't need 4gb to feel snappy

my family pc has 1gb and runs vista, its perfectly fine for everything(web, pictures, video, dvr, burning, etc...) except gaming. It runs on geforce 6200.
Vista takes a little bit (hesistates) to start apps like FF and Mail. I'm hoping to get up to 2GB in the next month or two so I'll come back here to compare loading times. Now apps like Photoshop CS3 and games like CSS take about 10 secs to load, but I don't expect them to pop right up. FF and Mail I do though.
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Old 08-07-07, 10:55 AM   #99
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViN86
i guess the real question is how much memory is consumed by the desktop by the "eye candy"? (not in games, cause if i remember correctly, the performance is the same with eye candy on/off in games)

i guess it just comes down to turning those things off tbh. and, i just dont want to drop $$$ (cause i developed into a cheap bastard over the past two years of college) on 4GB of RAM to make my computer feel snappy.

EDIT: seems this is why 2-4GB is needed to make the system feel snappy

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...uperfetch.mspx

good idea as long as it's freed when required (like ghost said).
The whole 'caching' argument has been horribly misused every time a Linux vs. Windows Vista debate came up. Caching is not a new concept, it has been around in both Linux and Windows for a very long time (at least by the time of Windows 95). Just because the new Task Manager shows up the cached data doesn't mean it is a Vista-only feature.

What people really (wanted to) refer to was Superfetch, and the two Indexing service and ReadyBoost were the culprit of Vista trashing the HDD and abnormal RAM/CPU usage upon booting up. And I'd call all these 'features' stupid: while they (Superfetch and ReadyBoost) may provide a somewhat smoother experience, in the long run they do more harm than good.

The idea was Windows heuristically guesses what applications you often run and prefetch them when the system is idle. It is obviously useless when in battery mode, even in AC mode it marginally improve responsiveness (if any):
- It takes up several minutes *after* you logged in for the HDD and CPU usage to settle down. Most of the time your drive spends cycles loading unnecessary stuff: You will never load the whole game/music store/movies into RAM but a portion of them, reading them before hand is useless. With applications, perhaps, but please read the 2nd point.
- The system RAM risks being fragmented if you don't wait for Superfetch to finish its stuff (and I bet you rarely do), which leads to /worse/ performance.
- Most modern games (or heavy movie/music editors) require more-or-less 1 GB of RAM to run smoothly. Even if you have 2 GB of RAM available, upon starting these games, Windows has to flush whatever it's cached. After quiting the game, Superfetch has to 'cache' them all over again, for no *fscking* benefits.

Anyway, the main point stays intact: you can do whatever you please with much less RAM and processing power under Linux, Vista is a resource hog. The best Windows OS so far is Windows 2000. If not for MS enforcing Windows upgrades through dirty business tricks, I wouldn't be surprised most people would still be using Windows 2000 today.

Have phun burning your computer.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:00 AM   #100
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

I wonder why Vista doesn't do something like Linux's prelinking, I guess 'Stupidfetch' is their solution.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:07 AM   #101
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1f0
The whole 'caching' argument has been horribly misused every time a Linux vs. Windows Vista debate came up. Caching is not a new concept, it has been around in both Linux and Windows for a very long time (at least by the time of Windows 95). Just because the new Task Manager shows up the cached data doesn't mean it is a Vista-only feature.

What people really (wanted to) refer to was Superfetch, and the two Indexing service and ReadyBoost were the culprit of Vista trashing the HDD and abnormal RAM/CPU usage upon booting up. And I'd call all these 'features' stupid: while they (Superfetch and ReadyBoost) may provide a somewhat smoother experience, in the long run they do more harm than good.

The idea was Windows heuristically guesses what applications you often run and prefetch them when the system is idle. It is obviously useless when in battery mode, even in AC mode it marginally improve responsiveness (if any):
- It takes up several minutes *after* you logged in for the HDD and CPU usage to settle down. Most of the time your drive spends cycles loading unnecessary stuff: You will never load the whole game/music store/movies into RAM but a portion of them, reading them before hand is useless. With applications, perhaps, but please read the 2nd point.
- The system RAM risks being fragmented if you don't wait for Superfetch to finish its stuff (and I bet you rarely do), which leads to /worse/ performance.
- Most modern games (or heavy movie/music editors) require more-or-less 1 GB of RAM to run smoothly. Even if you have 2 GB of RAM available, upon starting these games, Windows has to flush whatever it's cached. After quiting the game, Superfetch has to 'cache' them all over again, for no *fscking* benefits.

Anyway, the main point stays intact: you can do whatever you please with much less RAM and processing power under Linux, Vista is a resource hog. The best Windows OS so far is Windows 2000. If not for MS enforcing Windows upgrades through dirty business tricks, I wouldn't be surprised most people would still be using Windows 2000 today.

Have phun burning your computer.
I'll agree about 2000, it was my favorite.

I'll disagree with caching not coming into play until Windows 95. You must be either young or totally forgot about RAM disks.
"DEVICE=[drive:][path]RAMDRIVE.SYS [DiskSize SectorSize [NumEntries]]] [/E | /A]" ahh DOS memories
I remember we had many PCs that had extra RAM just to use them. The PCs weren't shut down much and when they rebooted, everything had to be reloaded to the RAM disk and then it could run effectively.

Also, the only PCs I have experienced taking minutes *after* logging in to complete the prefetch have insufficient RAM/too much crap loading/slow processing. I don't experience disk thrashing on my personal machines, but the cheapy work PC here does.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:13 AM   #102
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

I remember having Windows 2K. It was basically XP without any eye candy for me.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:16 AM   #103
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by six_storm
I remember having Windows 2K. It was basically XP without any eye candy for me.
That's why I loved it. I'm seriously considering getting a lower grade of Vista when I do get it. DX10 is all I really need from it.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:23 AM   #104
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1f0
Just because the new Task Manager shows up the cached data doesn't mean it is a Vista-only feature.
SuperFetch and ReadyBoost are unique to Vista. Vista memory management has currently no competition, is much better than Linux and/or OS X (BSD). Plus the most secure (driver signing, kernel patch protection, DEP, etc.).

http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=242429
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My websites: [url=http://hulan.cz/en][b]HULAN.cz[/b][/url], [url=http://radekhulan.cz/][b]RADEKHULAN.cz[/b][/url], [url=http://hulan.info/][b]HULAN.info[/b][/url], [url=http://blogcms.com/][b]BLOGCMS.com[/b][/url], [url=http://www.megablog.cz/][b]MEGABLOG.cz[/b][/url] | [url=http://hulan.cz/temp/games.png][b]Games played[/b][/url] | [URL=http://hulan.cz/temp/sestava.png][B]CPU-Z[/B][/URL] -- [URL="http://radekhulan.cz/img/stacker-830/stacker-830-bocnice.jpg"][B]case foto[/B][/URL][/size]
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Old 08-07-07, 11:28 AM   #105
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by radekhulan
SuperFetch and ReadyBoost are unique to Vista. Vista memory management has currently no competition, is much better than Linux and/or OS X (BSD).
Of course it is and Microsoft just deposited another $20 USD in your account. I'd go as far as to say that Linux is losing market share daiily to Microsoft, the world runs on Microsoft software, and Microsoft itself is what causes the world to spin on it's axis. If it weren't for Microsoft we'd all be flung into the void of space.

Microsoft also produces 70% of the world oxygen in Remond, WA.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:31 AM   #106
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.

I mean, I would LOVE to run Linux if it could meet my gaming needs.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:31 AM   #107
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilghost
I'd go as far as to say that Linux is losing market share daiily to Microsoft, the world runs on Microsoft software,
Yes, Linux is loosing big way, nobody (less than 1%) uses it on desktop, and server share is falling as well. Apache/Linux went from 70% down to 50%, while Microsoft IIS went from 18% to 35% within last 2 years. The difference narrowed from 52% to only 15%. Amazing Microsoft achievement. Not to mention some Apache installations are running on Win 2K3.




http://news.netcraft.com/archives/20...er_survey.html

China said NO to Red Flag Linux, being developed for 2 years, and will start purchasing and installing Windows and Office 2007.

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=525

They realized that "free" does not mean good, supported, secure, fast, functional. In fact, it is quite the opposite.
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Old 08-07-07, 11:36 AM   #108
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Default Re: Vista Ultimate x64 Thought/Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tr1cK
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.

I mean, I would LOVE to run Linux if it could meet my gaming needs.
Don't let radekhulan hear you. Every positive Linux remark made by someone in a thread he contributes to results in -$20 USD being taken from his Microsoft shill account.

radekhulan, guess what? Sever banners are an inaccurate measurement of server software. Lets take my webserver for example:

Code:
luser@meowbox:~$ curl -I http://www.mydomain.net
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:24:00 GMT
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
Set-Cookie: sessid=b6a9197c44f11f5d514610684670d3b3; path=/
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Set-Cookie: sessauth=3eb085f9ecc2f9ac65cd6b120a25b258948936a4
Vary: Accept-Encoding
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
IIS 6.0 eh? Right.

Code:
luser@mydomain:~$ uname -r
2.6.15-28-686
luser@packetmail:~$ dpkg -l|grep -i apache2
ii  apache2                                2.0.55-4ubuntu2.1               next generation, scalable, extendable web se
ii  apache2-common                         2.0.55-4ubuntu2.1               next generation, scalable, extendable web se
ii  apache2-mpm-prefork                    2.0.55-4ubuntu2.1               traditional model for Apache2
ii  apache2-prefork-dev                    2.0.55-4ubuntu2.1               development headers for apache2
ii  apache2-utils                          2.0.55-4ubuntu2.1               utility programs for webservers
ii  libapache2-mod-chroot                  0.5-1               run Apache in a secure chroot environment
ii  libapache2-mod-php5                    5.1.2-1ubuntu3.9               server-side, HTML-embedded scripting languag
luser@packetmail:~$
Code:
luser@mydomain:/etc/apache2/mods-enabled$ cat modsecurity.conf|grep -i iis
    SecServerSignature "Microsoft-IIS/6.0"
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