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Old 09-01-07, 10:55 AM   #1
Sithlord
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Default EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Hi,

I own an EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M and I'm quite satisfied with it except for TV-Out which clearly drives me mad these days. The TV output is "Black & White" whatever settings I may alter.

My Desktop runs Ubuntu Feisty Fawn 7.04 with my own kernel version (currently 2.6.22.5) but the problem occurs whatever kernel version I use (stock distro kernel or my own).

/etc/X11/xorg.conf holds 3 layouts which are Desktop for my desktop (this is the default), "DualHead" for a DFP + TV-Out setup running two independant screens and "Clone" for TwinView clone mode. All modes involving TV-Out display have the problem.

All my tests are done in a console with this command :
Code:
xinit -display ":1" -- vt8 :1 -logverbose 6 -dpi 96 -br -layout "Clone"
My desktop uses vt7 and display :0.

I've setup a quick WinXP on a spare disk just to test and of course, everything works nicely on that plateform (should I be surprised?).

I tested the TV-Out display using SVIDEO and COMPOSITE (RCA) cables connected to my living-room TV (Panasonic), to a spare TV (small 13 inches "Siltex" TV with a SCART/AV1 and COMPOSITE/AV2 inputs) and to an old Commodore Amiga 1084S monitor featuring SCART and COMPOSITE inputs.

So I can DEFINITELY state that :
1/ The display devices are not faulty
2/ The EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M is not faulty (works on WinXP)
3/ The linux driver (100.14.11) is the culprit !

Option "TVStandard" seems to work because when setting it to "PAL-x" (BGHIN...) or "NTSC-M", the spare TV (Siltex) clearly shows different display (the Panasonic TV is too good at image correction making it hard to distinguish PAL from NTSC).

The Siltex TV, under WinXP acts differently than under Linux. If, with the remote, I switch the AV standard, I get the following reactions:

WinXP : The standard is set to PAL/N on nVidia display settings
- AUTO : Works as expected, it detects the right standard
- PAL : Works of course
- SECAM (french standard similar to PAL) : Works but looses colors and produces big moire effects. This is expected and not surprising
- NTSC1 (don't know if it's -M or -J) : Looses vertical sync. This is expected as NTSC refreshes at 60Hz and PAL at 50Hz (except some variations)
- NTSC2 : As above

Linux : Option "TVStandard" "PAL-N" on "Device" section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf
- AUTO/PAL/SECAM/NTSC1/NTSC2 : Black and White !

Under Linux, switching the AV standard with the remote NEVER makes the Siltex TV loose the vertical sync... The Panasonic TV looses vertsync though when switching from PAL<->NTSC. There must be something weird in the signal sent to TVs because if I connect a DVD player to both TVs and manually force a standard (PAL<->NTSC), both TVs loose sync of course.

The last info I have about this madness is the tooltip displayed by nvidia-settings in "X Server Display Configuration" panel in "Clone" mode. Both DFP and TV (stacked) are described as "1024 x 768 @ 60Hz". These 60Hz are a bit disturbing because with PAL TV, this should be 50Hz and when I test with "TVStandard" "NTSC-M", I should have colors and not black and white!

I gave my previous gfx card (FX5700LE AGP) to a friend and I've setup his Linux box (Ubuntu with stock kernel) and there wasn't the slightest trouble to get a beautiful colored output on his TV (Thomson similar to my Panasonic).

As usual, please find attached the log requested by the sticky notes of the forum so we find a solution to this problem

I'm quite experienced user so don't hesitate to ask for testing beta-drivers, apply special patches, etc... I know what I'm doing with my box
Attached Files
File Type: bz2 nvidia-bug-report.log.bz2 (33.7 KB, 97 views)
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Old 09-04-07, 03:33 AM   #2
Sithlord
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Hi,

Mhmmm... More than 43 views of the post and not a single reply, not even a corporate-style one such as "We're trying to reproduce the bug to get further information".

Still waiting for a clue about this problem, I'm out of ideas.

Just to be exhaustive, during my tests, I of course used different cables just in case (and remember, everything works in a quick install of WindowsXP). I used the supplied 3 colors "Component" converter as we can use the green RCA plug to get "Composite" output as my TV does not feature an "Component" input connector. And I also used a "SVideo" cable directly plugged to the card's connector.

Every cable lead to have a quite nice picture quality but colors were missing to get a perfect output
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Old 09-08-07, 04:14 PM   #3
nicoletti
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

I have a GeForce 8500 GT and having the same problem as you.
I'm using the S-Video output and I have tried almost all possible options to solve this problem.
I'm now wondering to try this soldering solution.

For information, I had a Geforce 5700FX before the 8500GT one, and this solution worked fine.
But after I installed the 8500GT, the new Forceware driver refused to let me "cheat" with the composite option...

Let's go to the soldering!
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Old 09-08-07, 08:53 PM   #4
Mercilesssyrus
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

are you running it component out or svideo?
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Old 09-09-07, 06:48 PM   #5
Sithlord
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Hi,

This is DEFINITELY a driver issue with 8000 series cards. I just made a test to make sure my xorg.conf wasn't flawed in any way. I was sure the test would work out-of-the-box and of course, it did.

I borrowed a 7200 PCI-E card from a friend, I plugged it in place of my 8800GTS and rebooted my box. I didn't change a single line of my xorg.conf and fired the command line of my first post to init a DualHead and Clone display.

Guess what? The colors were there as expected and everything worked flawlessly in TV out mode.

Of course, plugging back my 8800GTS restored the crappy black & white display in the TV out.

Unfortunately, nobody I know owns a 8000 series card that I could test. The only noticeable difference I could see is the TVout in the 7200 is activated right on boot and we can see BIOS and console output on TV. The 8800GTS TV out stays silent unless explicitely activated.

To nVidia : Please do something to fix these issues. This is unacceptable to buy a so expensive card to get a poor driver support. First you only provide closed source support which is bad by essence on a Free Software plateform and second you let bugs stand for a very long time, you give no information about real driver support (If I knew the TV out was so broken I wouldn't have bought this card) and your drivers release cycle is quite slow. Funny enough that you fixed all standing bugs on Vista plateform lightning fast. How typical...

It seems nVidia thinks that Free Software users are unimportant for their juicy business... This is a shame
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Old 09-09-07, 06:58 PM   #6
Sithlord
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercilesssyrus
are you running it component out or svideo?
None of my TVs/Monitors can handle Component directly. I tried :

- SVideo to SVideo
- Sivideo to Scart-adapter
- Supplied Component adapter (green wire) to Composite

In all cases, these were connected to a Panasonic Quintrix 4:3 mid-end TV, a small 13 inch TV and a 1084 Commodore Amiga monitor as they all feature a Scart and Composite inputs (Only the Panasonic features a SVideo input)

I also tested directly on my monitor (Samsung SyncMaster 214T) which features SVideo and Composite inputs as well as the usual VGA + DVI inputs.

NONE of them produced color with 8800GTS TVout, ALL of them produced color in TVout with the 7200 I borrowed from a friend as explained above.
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Old 09-09-07, 07:22 PM   #7
Sithlord
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoletti
I'm now wondering to try this soldering solution.

For information, I had a Geforce 5700FX before the 8500GT one, and this solution worked fine.
Thanks for the tips but I won't make any kind of hardware tricks, none, ever.

My setup works perfectly when running WinXP as a test bed with standard connections, cables and adapters, there's NO WAY I'll make a "special" one to workaround nVidia's laziness !

This is nVidia's responsability to provide quality tested drivers which support all features. We paid them dearly, both card AND drivers. There's NOTHING on the card's box which states "Works only on Windows plateforms, drivers for other OSes are not supported".

Driver support for Linux (and maybe *BSD, I haven't tested) is clearly deficient... TVout is broken for 8000 series cards, Black Window bug is there for more than one year now, XvMC isn't supported in 8000 series, etc... etc... Why the hell did we bought expensive cards for ?

nVidia MUST CEASE to consider alternative OSes as unimportant ! The 5% we are today can become the 80% of tomorrow and we usually have good memory of what poor fairplay companies did to us...

I pray to see the day when AMD will give the specs for their ATI cards to the Free Software plateforms. This day, nVidia will kneel down and they'll be in the obligation to also give their specs or they'll loose a big part of their business. Free Software isn't going to disappear, far from it. Think twice nVidia.

I just HATE, HATE, HATE closed-source proprietary software !
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Old 09-09-07, 08:09 PM   #8
AaronP
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Have you tried the various TVOutFormat options?
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Old 09-10-07, 12:18 AM   #9
Mercilesssyrus
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Try the other tv-out options as mentioned aboved, and try replacing the component cable with another, if you still have the problem rma it.
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Old 09-10-07, 08:48 AM   #10
Sithlord
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronP
Have you tried the various TVOutFormat options?
Yes of course and I mentioned it in my first post eventough I misspelled it in the message (TVStandard instead of TVOutStandard).
Quote:
Option "TVStandard" seems to work because when setting it to "PAL-x" (BGHIN...) or "NTSC-M", the spare TV (Siltex) clearly shows different display (the Panasonic TV is too good at image correction making it hard to distinguish PAL from NTSC).
Wow, I just realised this part of the post is a total mess !
To reply correctly to AaronP : Yes, I tried TVStandard AND TVOutFormat but not all possible combinations. Whenever I was using a SVideo cable I tried both internal AutoDetection and setting TVOutStandard to SVIDEO as well as COMPOSITE when I was using a composite RCA.


From time to time in all my tests, I got color, say 1 time out of 20. As soon as I ended the "xinit" test, the black & white TVOut showed up next time without touching xorg.conf. This was a real nightmare to understand why I got this strange behaviour.

I decided to post here after 2 full days and nights of tests. As I said, I have different TVs, cables and such to make sure this is an issue with my board and not a side effect of some defective cable or TV.

I hope this isn't an specific issue with ASUS EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M which isn't triggered by other brands of 8800GTS implementations, this would be a real hassle to fix There's nobody I know who owns a 8800GTS be it ASUS or not.

BTW, on my WinXP setup, I don't use the Asus supplied drivers but the standard WHQL ForceWare drivers downloaded from nVidia's site. As everything works flawlessly on that plateform, I guess there's nothing specific with the ASUS card and the issue is clearly located in the Linux version of the drivers.
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Old 09-10-07, 08:57 AM   #11
Sithlord
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercilesssyrus
Try the other tv-out options as mentioned aboved, and try replacing the component cable with another, if you still have the problem rma it.
I don't use a component cable (with the Red/Green/Blue RCAs). Most of my TVs/Monitors have a SVideo input so I make a SVideo-to-SVideo connection. I also tried a Composite (single RCA) connection using the "TVOuput-to-Component" adapter (this one) supplied by Asus in the card's box as you can use the green RCA to output basic Composite (NOT Component) video.
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Old 09-10-07, 09:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: EN8800GTS/HTDP/320M TV-Out madness

I have seen this problem when for some reason the card is outputing a composite (not component) signal over a s-video cable or vise-versa. These two output types are usually on the same dongle. Once it is set to the correct setting then I see full color (just a suggestion).
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