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Old 10-01-07, 05:01 AM   #13
NeoNecro
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilghost
No issues here, perhaps it's user issue?
Look, I have an nvidia card on my desktop and one on my laptop, I'm using Linux for over a year now with the nvidia drivers. I dont use the packages from the ubuntu repositories but the installer from the nvidia site. On my desktop I'm not having any problems, but on my laptop I do.

The systems freezes after some time (same problem like a lot of people here on the forums). But the worst thing about this is that it only freezes with dirvers newer than 09, with the 09 driver I dont have this problems (like most people here).

The problem isnt user or distro related because I get the same problem on different distros and kernel versions (I've tried Fedora, Ubuntu and pclinuxos, kernel 2.6.19 -> 2.6.22) they all give me the same problem, works with 09, but freeze with the 2 newer version. So saying its a user error is just not true and and insult.

So, to me it seems like nvidia broke something in the newer version of there driver and should fix it. If they fail to do this, they should open there specs. (They should open there specs any way, but I could settle with closed drivers if they worked!!!)

At the moment I'm stuck with the old drivers, so what am I going to do when I want to use a kernel or a version of X that's not supported by this version? If this problem is not going to be fixed I will not buy an nvidia card ever again and will suggest to everyone who comes and asks me for advice to not buy one either.

I've submited my bug repport and opend a topic, but didn't hear from anyone (only from people with the same problem) for almost a full week now. Where is the support?? Does nvidia just ignore the problems they cant fix?
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Old 10-01-07, 07:25 AM   #14
cellstije
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

What about:
dump your binary-closed approach (your code as well!) and embrace fully the nouveau project by helping actively the people over there (are u people over at nvidia happy of obfuscating the nv code?) and releasing the docs (so anybody - with a clue - can happily help!).

I guess that in 6 months of joined (nouveau folk + nvidia people) work you (nvidia) and us (users) would get a very good 2d/3d driver with supend/exa/AIGLX/power-management/whatnot support

(obviously the brand of my next laptop/gpu will depend exclusively on the open-spec of its hardware ... amd or intel? ATM not nvidia)

my 2c.

c.
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Old 10-01-07, 12:40 PM   #15
nvuser07
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

I have been using nvidia graphic cards since the age of win98. I have very few issues with the nvidia linux driver until the last 2 drivers after 09. I preferred Nvidia over ATI or Intel.

I did hit a few bad Win drivers in between, usually they recovered within a couple releases.

I am expecting a simple fix or work around for the current stability problem since the same hardware and software work well with 09. However up to now I haven't got a clue.

Some suggest setting maxcpu to 1 would fix the issue, but it is too drastic, not an option for me.

I guess if we have the source, we may figure out what went wrong.
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Old 10-01-07, 04:34 PM   #16
joffe
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNecro
I've submited my bug repport and opend a topic, but didn't hear from anyone (only from people with the same problem) for almost a full week now. Where is the support?? Does nvidia just ignore the problems they cant fix?
Maybe they hang out at the Official nVNews Babe Thread (1.5 million views)?

Seriously though, what company in their right mind ever considers putting their support forum on an external site hosting that kind of material? Regardless of the effort from the developers that post here, I'd say that it's a f***ing remarkable statement from the company that doesn't exactly seem to go hand in hand with the NVIDIA Corporation Worldwide Code of Conduct. I have no problem watching naked girls but I think NVIDIA should go back to the drawing board when it is time to revamp the long term support strategy. Now what business are you in again?

There, I said it (putting on bullet proof vest).
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Old 10-01-07, 06:06 PM   #17
nvuser07
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

As someone mentioned about using maxcpus=1 I found taskset X to the second CPU, i.e. taskset -p 2 <pid of X> seems doing the same trick.

The 19 driver survived glxgears and xengine. It usually freezes more or less right away without taskset.

Taskset'ing X to the first CPU would not fix the issue though, I still got the soft freezes.

It looks like a concurrency issue.

Not sure if the workaround would work if we load up both cores.
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Old 10-01-07, 06:22 PM   #18
nvuser07
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

I forget to say.

Would somebody please acknowledge the issue and fix it.
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Old 10-02-07, 01:35 AM   #19
uldgar
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithorus
Did you read through the entire forum and read all threads and from that conclude that most of them was due to bad drivers? Or did you just scim through the latest threads with the biggest letters?
Come on men, do you need to read all the news in a newspaper to know world's f**ked up?

The point here is that if that the folks at NVIDIA were more responsive and cared more about their Linux community then they would make WORKING drivers for us, or if they can't or don't have the time, or whatever, why don't release their specs so we can make things ourselves?

I don't think NVIDIA would let their Windows or OSX users be in this situation of not having working drivers for their cards, why's that? Because both OS's are sponsored and made by corporations which report lots of money to NVIDIA by including their cards on their machines. What about NVIDIA telling Steve Jobs, "ahem, well, sorry Mister Jobs, we don't have a working driver for uh, your new Mac Pro...". Steve wouldn't think it twice, neither would any of the big computer corporations do, to turn away to ATI. And so NVIDIA would be hasty on providing that missing driver.

But of course, poor Linux users don't have ANY kind of support except by that of its big community, and they have to buy who knows which card that will work with their machines. Is it fair? We have bought lots of NVIDIA cards, and only a part of them have it working, and not the way it should be. Why? Why should we Linux users suffer from graphics-ache?


This is my demand, that NVIDIA releases WORKING drivers for linux or even better, to release their GPU specs before it is too late and we switch to ATI.
Personally I've never preferred ATI, but if this is how things are, well... maybe all we could use a little change.


It's for the good of all NVIDIA+Linux users and for NVIDIA itslef, as they'll have more and happier customers.


Greetings.
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Old 10-02-07, 03:04 AM   #20
NeoNecro
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

And still no word from nvdia ...
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Old 10-02-07, 04:48 AM   #21
shlemil
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

I have a T61 too, and I fully agree with Lech. Had my hardware configuration been available with an Intel adapter, I would have gone for that without much hesitation.

Instead, I tried out the 100.14.(x < 19) series, which were the first to support the NVS 140M, but got frequent hard lockups. The advice given by the Nvidia people on these issues ranged from "Downgrade to an older version" (haha) or use some freakish boot option that either cripples my system (like maxcpus=1) or makes it run hot (like idle=poll).

IMHO, complaining is no use. The Nvidia people more or less direct everybody to the sticky posts, often rightfully so, in other cases it's plain impertinence, and they could often as well be replaced with very small shell scripts. So either you get working drivers ootb (which is good), or you get frequent crashes and have to use the vesa or nv drivers.

The nv driver is in a very sorry state and is not developed further. If you have high hopes for the nouveau project, then you might as well prepare for some harsh disappointments. The several rXXX projects for the ATI boards had some of the brightest minds in X development, but I had nothing but grief with 3D acceleration using the free r300 driver (ditto for the old, binary-only ATI driver, which was even worse) on my old T41p.

As much as I sympathize with this thread's effort, it will have no results. Nvidia can choose to ignore almost everything which is said here. Actually, it looks like the support given here is a private pet project of some admittedly motivated employees, and they deserve some praise for that.

The only way things are going to change is when Nvidia is feeling financial pressure because of the better Intel or ATI/AMD cards with high-quality (now free) drivers. Up to now, the Nvidia drivers have (sadly for the free Nvidia drivers, sometimes good for the users) been "good enough", and the best choice for Linux users. That might change now. The old argument that he (i.e. Nvidia or ATI) who opens his specs first, will be sued because of patent infringements might not hold as before, though I think that AMD is in a much better position than Nvidia to fight off any such claims.

As long as the situation remains as it is right now, we can just silently rejoice in the fact that Windows Vista and 64bit Windows users (XP or Vista) have the same problems with their hardware.

best,

Torsten

-- Edited to correct the Nvidia driver version numbers.
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Old 10-02-07, 09:02 AM   #22
nvuser07
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvuser07
As someone mentioned about using maxcpus=1 I found taskset X to the second CPU, i.e. taskset -p 2 <pid of X> seems doing the same trick.

The 19 driver survived glxgears and xengine. It usually freezes more or less right away without taskset.

Taskset'ing X to the first CPU would not fix the issue though, I still got the soft freezes.

It looks like a concurrency issue.

Not sure if the workaround would work if we load up both cores.
On running both glxgears and xengine at the same time, tasket'ing X to the second CPU still fails. Rolling back nvidia module to 09, it works perfectly with both running.
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Old 10-02-07, 11:11 AM   #23
Keyper7
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

Interesting, I'll try to assign compiz or Xorg to the second core and see if something changes.

By the way, is someone having the soft freezes with a 2.6.23 kernel?

I was wondering if the problem might happen less when under the Completely Fair Scheduler.
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Old 10-02-07, 10:32 PM   #24
Keyper7
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Default Re: Demand on WORKING drivers

Nah, assigning X or compiz to a specific processor didn't make any good.

In fact, it made the freezes more frequent.
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