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Old 04-10-03, 08:02 AM   #1
Tommi
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Default Please advice with Linux updating...

Yo!

I have been pondering recently the right way to handle linux updating....

1. Attitude 1: Dont upgrade if it works...things which are not broken cannot be fixed.

2. Attitude 2. If there is a new upgrade install it. It never works as well that it couldn't run a little better after all.

Well...I have a python problem in Redhat 7.3. It complains something after fresh installation about python...never have time to read it really well until it closes... :-) Furthermore is this release full of bugs. Allmost all Linux programs crashes from time to time. My windows 2000 installation is 5 times more stable than linux installation without any updates. I have used many releases of Linux ( 7.2 - 7.3. and 8.0 which was total **** BTW ) and all of them are full of horrible bugs. My windows 2000 runs like a charm compared to linux.

Something is wrong...I know. :-)

What I should do now?

1. I start to download rpm updates about i386 folder...all of them. But should I upgrade only those rpm's which are related to python? What if I use " rpm -U python*" Then it starts to complain about dependies...that I do not have that and that file. This is often really time consuming task to play with these dependies...is this normal? I mean with windows 2000 all you need to do is just press the button and service pack installs without any stupid questions...I can install Sp 3 5 times compared to fight with rpm's which sometimes may spent my time even many hours.

2. What if I decide to download all the possible upgrades from redhat ftp. I did this once and one of the programs decided not to run anymore. So it was a bad idea. Should I be more carefull and upgrade only the python or sambas which clearly do not seem to work properly?

Furthermore I would like to hear your opininion of the redhat update rpm's? Are they ****? Or usefull files? At least I have had lots of trouble with rpm udates. Its a painfull system. Should I allways try use sources and compile them if I want to be really succesfull with updating. Using sources makes sense because gnu rebuild tries to configure the files precicely for your computer...but compiling all the little files one by one is a painfull and time consuming process...I have better things to do. BUT if I get something better like rocksolid operating system with these compiled filed then I am ready to go for it...but I hate the work. No I cannot use wildcards because if Ido this some important warnings will ignored...I have to watch the whole translation in order to sure that all is O.K. Must be carefull...haha.

Rebuild information also says that my GNU compiler in redhat 7.3 is ****. Also the gnu people admits this...please upgrade. Hey this is not a little thing to ask!!!! If I go to gnu pages I will find hundreds of files which take many days to download despite I have grate download speed at work. Many gigabytes...oh my god. And I cannot download them as a one single file only but as little stupid folders which are really time consuming to download bit by bit. If they were as two or three iso's with md5 checksum it would not be so owfull task as it now is. ****...this gnu take days to download...days to install because I have not ever seen more complex installation manual than this gnu has...I am becoming grazy.

Is there any sense in this? Am I stupid? Is this normal? What I am doing wrong? I mean...with the time I have spent with linux I could have installed windows 2000 with plenty of programs about 20 times and I have just started to play with Linux...?!?!?

BTW I have no net at home...cannot use automatic update service.

-Tommi
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Old 04-10-03, 09:46 AM   #2
erwos
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Default

The reason you don't have to worry about dependencies with Windows programs is because they include _everything_ with them. You know how when you uninstall a program, it says "I think this isn't used anymore, can't be sure" for some files? That's because Windows has no concept of dependency. It uses a counter to figure out which files are being used. It's a crap system which leads to many, many problems.

RPM is a much more elegant system, and relies on dynamic dependencies to figure out _exactly_ what you need. You will not get "I don't think you need this, not sure" in an RPM-based system. However, since not everything is included, you've got to go to rpmfind and download RPMs, or use apt-rpm and download them from FreshRPMs. The fact of the matter is, you trade one set of problems for another. I much prefer RedHat's to Windows'.

gcc 2.96 isn't as broken as people make it out to be. 90% of the problems with it are people writing bad code that they expected would work with 2.95, and got screwed when a bugfix version hit.

I'll be honest - most Linux distributions assume you have network access. If you don't, then it should come as no surprise things don't work well for you. Personally, I almost never update major packages unless I'm moving to a new release of RedHat. OK, sure, I'll throw in a new version of Gaim or something, but that's hardly a major packaage. Python is massively important - RedHat's tools are primarily python based.

You're really between a rock and a hard place if you have no net connection at home. There are some distributions that might be more to your liking, such as Debian or Gentoo, since you can keep them on the cutting edge, but unfortunately, these all depend heavily on internet access.

I am somewhat surprised that you find RH 8 to be buggy. It's certainly not perfect, but I've found it remarkably stable and fast. I'm using it on my laptop right now, in fact, and that's just a lowly P166MMX with 96mb of RAM. Maybe try RH9?

-Erwos
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Old 04-11-03, 04:46 AM   #3
Tommi
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O.K....I see.

Maybe I should shift to redhat 9. *sigh* :-)

However I got that python complaining away when I upgraded my comp with updates which were compiled. These compiled updates installed really smoothly compared to ready made rpm's....so there is sense to use sources and compile them instead of using rpm...right?

But I am going to stay on this 7.3....I think there are more programs made for this instead of brand new 9.0.

-Tommi
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Old 04-12-03, 08:23 AM   #4
Tommi
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Default Giving up with old releases...

Now swittching to redhat 9.0...maybe my hardware is too new: I have a brand new computer with exotic workstation card....

And the programs...they are supposed to compile anyway...so lets go to latest and hottest RH 9!!!

Well...I could have upgraded Xfree ...but I am too tired to do it. After all the bug is in python...not in Xfree.

-Tommi :
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