NV38?

DSC · 07-23-03, 10:59 PM

Been lurking at the bjorn3d channel after the chat was finished and noticed there was talk on NV38.

There seems to be a new NV38 GPU coming soon, basically a NV35 with a number of fixes and speed bumped, possibly to counter the R360. Uttar, any concrete info on it?

Uttar · 07-24-03, 02:15 AM

Lol, how come things leak so darn quick nowadays? Amazing, amazing...

Yes, it's a high-end part. Only info I got right now is that it's scheduled for September.
I've got a few ideas too, and heard a few things, but it's too early to say anything reliable but that.

Uttar

Deimos · 07-24-03, 03:01 AM

This is getting silly.. between ATI and NVIDIA there will soon be a new high-end part each month..

/Deimos

Uttar · 07-24-03, 03:11 AM

Well, it's practically a darn respin. Costs them money to make, but no where near as much as a new ASIC.

Uttar

Deimos · 07-24-03, 03:38 AM

So what can we expect apart from higher clock-frequencies?

/Deimos

Dazz · 07-24-03, 04:43 AM

I would say pixle shader peformance will be improved as well as AF & AA.

ClyssaN · 07-24-03, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DSC
Been lurking at the bjorn3d channel after the chat was finished and noticed there was talk on NV38.

There seems to be a new NV38 GPU coming soon, basically a NV35 with a number of fixes and speed bumped, possibly to counter the R360. Uttar, any concrete info on it?

If i remember correctly, MuFu was the one who mention it, what else is new

volt · 07-24-03, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dazz
I would say pixle shader peformance will be improved as well as AF & AA.

I highly doubt it. NV35 was supposed to have doubled PS performance, and that came out to be PR BS.

A different pipeline configuration will most likely contribute to improved pixel shader performance.

NV38 + Det 50 in Fall ?

MuFu · 07-24-03, 07:54 AM

NV38 is just a respun NV35 with tweaks/fixes, AFAIK. 500-550/1000MHz clock projection. Called 6000/Ultra or 6900/Ultra.

MuFu.

ClyssaN · 07-24-03, 08:13 AM

Very nice clock speeds. To bad AA probably will be the same.

BigFish7 · 07-24-03, 08:48 AM

they might even use GDDR-2 (it's supported by the board as you all know)
yet i dobut it...
i'm sure they won't change the p.s performance by that much (10%-15% +- using same clocks as NV35) due to the fact that they will need to redesign the FPU...(they won't untill NV40 which should fix the P.S "problem").
however i expect nice 35%-25% boost under High IQ (AA+AF)...
we might see some kind of "tweak" as we know the NV3X lineup is extremely programmable meaning that they (nv) can still add more transistors(some kind of new tech) which would boost P.S performance (yet once again i doubt it

lets hope and see

Uttar · 07-24-03, 09:00 AM

Well, new MSAA techniques are unlikely - but some higher MSAA OG possibilities are not out of the question, you know...

Uttar

Paul · 07-24-03, 09:43 AM

Looking increasingly likely that the NV40 isn't going to debut this year, if only because the R420 has slipped to Spring 2004. There is no real rush for nVidia anymore, so perhaps they're content with a respun NV35 to stay competitive with the R360. Can't see them being too happy replacing the NV38 after 2 months (the previously expected launchdate was November/December)

It will be interesting to see if they get centroid sampling support into the NV38 though.

SurfMonkey · 07-24-03, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul
It will be interesting to see if they get centroid sampling support into the NV38 though.

I don't think they'll bother with centroid support. It isn't in the DX9 specs which is why ATI would have to hack around to get it exposed.

incurable · 07-24-03, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SurfMonkey
I don't think they'll bother with centroid support. It isn't in the DX9 specs which is why ATI would have to hack around to get it exposed.

If I understood the conversations correctly, Centroid Sampling is part of the PS3.0 specs which itself is part of DX9. I don't expect any NV3x to support it, though.

cu

incurable

07-24-03, 10:43 AM

is PS3.0 actually a part of DX9? I thought it was a part of the "List of Stuff That We Should Probably Do For DX10"

Hellbinder · 07-24-03, 10:46 AM

Interesting...

Although 550mhz ram seems a little unrealistic.

Edit: never mind i see that the 550 was talking about core not ram.

SurfMonkey · 07-24-03, 10:47 AM

Hmm, yeah it's in in the PS3.0 spec as an instruction modifier supported on dcl usage and texture lookup instructions. So I was wrong about it not being the DX9 spec but what I actually menat to say is that we won't see it int the current generation of cards unless ATI or NV decide to suprise us all.

07-24-03, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SurfMonkey
Hmm, yeah it's in in the PS3.0 spec as an instruction modifier supported on dcl usage and texture lookup instructions. So I was wrong about it not being the DX9 spec but what I actually menat to say is that we won't see it int the current generation of cards unless ATI or NV decide to suprise us all.

Maybe it could be emulated in software?

DarkOneX · 07-24-03, 10:50 AM

Do you all know for sure that there even is an improved 5900 coming out in Sept? IF this is true I'm selling my FX 5900U now as to get the most $$$ back out of it before this happens and will just buy that Chaintek 5600 Ultra to use in the meantime.

volt · 07-24-03, 10:52 AM

NVIDIA follows a 6 month cycle, that should tell you something

mikechai · 07-24-03, 10:57 AM

The NV38 plan should give you an idea when the NV40 is going to come out....

Uttar · 07-24-03, 11:00 AM

Well, nothing is a given yet for the NV40. Heck, the NV38 ( codename-less then ) was in development 3 months ago already, and the plan clearly was to release the NV40 at Comdex.
Although yes, that is, and always has been, a best-case scenario

Uttar

Hellbinder · 07-24-03, 11:05 AM

Quote:

NVIDIA follows a 6 month cycle, that should tell you something

Your making a funny right???

fx5900U in June, fx6000 in september, Nv40 introduced in november...

Thats a total of 7 months from start to finish for 3 high end cards. Whats happening here is that Nvidia is worried about what the R360 (not to mention the r350) performance numbers in HL2 will do to public opinion. Thus they decided to release yet another new card in just a 4 month window. Personally i dont think that a 50mhz core increase on the 5900U is going to save them. But well see.

Wonder if it will end up another virtual tie depending on the situation between the two. OF course the increase in core/ram wont likely give them any kind of a leg up in HL2. Personally, i think its going to just make it worse for then. Because they are going to have to then deal with message boards filled with *look the 9800pro is still faster than even Nvidias new fx6xxx in HL2*

Well, at least its going to be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Paul · 07-24-03, 11:05 AM

Actually, the NV40 launch would be 6-7 months after the NV35, so it would fit perfectly with their traditional release timetable. The NV38 potentially threw a spanner in the works there though... although it could well end up not even being officially announced per se, just slipped onto the shelves. The quieter the release, the more likely the NV40 is close(r).

07-23-03, 10:59 PM	#1
DSC Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 882	NV38? Been lurking at the bjorn3d channel after the chat was finished and noticed there was talk on NV38. There seems to be a new NV38 GPU coming soon, basically a NV35 with a number of fixes and speed bumped, possibly to counter the R360. Uttar, any concrete info on it?

07-24-03, 04:43 AM	#6
Dazz "TOON ARMY!" Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom Posts: 5,138	I would say pixle shader peformance will be improved as well as AF & AA. __________________ "Never interupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Processor: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition @ 4.25GHz Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 Graphics: ASUS ENGTX470 Memory: 4GB Kingston HyperX Blu PC12800 DDR3 Monitor: LG E2260V-PN Full HD WLED 22" & DELL 20" 2005FPW, Power: Coolermaster Silent Pro Modular 850w PSU Sound: Logitech Z5500 Digital. Cooling: Thermalright Silver Arrow. 1st Storage: Kingston V100 SSDNow128GB SSD 2nd Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB

07-24-03, 07:54 AM	#9
MuFu should be at a lecture Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Loughborough Uni/Aylesbury, UK Posts: 462	NV38 is just a respun NV35 with tweaks/fixes, AFAIK. 500-550/1000MHz clock projection. Called 6000/Ultra or 6900/Ultra. MuFu. Last edited by MuFu; 07-24-03 at 08:26 AM.

07-24-03, 08:13 AM	#10
ClyssaN Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 145	Very nice clock speeds. To bad AA probably will be the same. __________________ 9700 Pro built by ATI (342/344) Barton 2500+@2500 (11x227) A7N8X Delx 2.0 512 Kingston PC3200 WD800JB, Maxtor DM Plus 60 Dual Display -> Samsung 1100DF (21) & Sampo 811 (19) Antec 430W ANIMATED ALGORITHMS IN JAVA Click here to visit

07-24-03, 08:48 AM	#11
BigFish7 Nvidia Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Israel Posts: 310	they might even use GDDR-2 (it's supported by the board as you all know) yet i dobut it... i'm sure they won't change the p.s performance by that much (10%-15% +- using same clocks as NV35) due to the fact that they will need to redesign the FPU...(they won't untill NV40 which should fix the P.S "problem"). however i expect nice 35%-25% boost under High IQ (AA+AF)... we might see some kind of "tweak" as we know the NV3X lineup is extremely programmable meaning that they (nv) can still add more transistors(some kind of new tech) which would boost P.S performance (yet once again i doubt it lets hope and see Last edited by BigFish7; 07-24-03 at 08:58 AM.

07-24-03, 02:15 AM	#2
Uttar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,354	Lol, how come things leak so darn quick nowadays? Amazing, amazing... Yes, it's a high-end part. Only info I got right now is that it's scheduled for September. I've got a few ideas too, and heard a few things, but it's too early to say anything reliable but that. Uttar

07-24-03, 03:01 AM	#3
Deimos Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 84	This is getting silly.. between ATI and NVIDIA there will soon be a new high-end part each month.. /Deimos

07-24-03, 03:11 AM	#4
Uttar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,354	Well, it's practically a darn respin. Costs them money to make, but no where near as much as a new ASIC. Uttar

07-24-03, 03:38 AM	#5
Deimos Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 84	So what can we expect apart from higher clock-frequencies? /Deimos

07-24-03, 09:00 AM	#12
Uttar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,354	Well, new MSAA techniques are unlikely - but some higher MSAA OG possibilities are not out of the question, you know... Uttar

07-24-03, 09:43 AM	#13
Paul Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 538	Looking increasingly likely that the NV40 isn't going to debut this year, if only because the R420 has slipped to Spring 2004. There is no real rush for nVidia anymore, so perhaps they're content with a respun NV35 to stay competitive with the R360. Can't see them being too happy replacing the NV38 after 2 months (the previously expected launchdate was November/December) It will be interesting to see if they get centroid sampling support into the NV38 though. __________________ - Paul Last edited by Paul; 07-24-03 at 09:47 AM.

07-24-03, 10:43 AM	#16
The Baron Guest Posts: n/a	is PS3.0 actually a part of DX9? I thought it was a part of the "List of Stuff That We Should Probably Do For DX10"

07-24-03, 10:46 AM	#17
Hellbinder Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CDA Posts: 1,510	Interesting... Although 550mhz ram seems a little unrealistic. Edit: never mind i see that the 550 was talking about core not ram. __________________ Overam Mirage 4700 3.2ghz P4 HT SIS 748FX Chipset 800mhz FSB 1Gig DDR-400 60Gig 7200RPM HD Radeon 9600M Turbo 128 (400/250) Catalyst 4.2 Latest good read. [url]http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTc4LDE=http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTc4LDE=[/url] Last edited by Hellbinder; 07-24-03 at 10:56 AM.

07-24-03, 10:47 AM	#18
SurfMonkey QuadCore G80 PS3 Overload Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In a small room surrounded by vast, inscrutable, machines... Posts: 491	Hmm, yeah it's in in the PS3.0 spec as an instruction modifier supported on dcl usage and texture lookup instructions. So I was wrong about it not being the DX9 spec but what I actually menat to say is that we won't see it int the current generation of cards unless ATI or NV decide to suprise us all. __________________ Folding for Beyond3D "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." Sir Winston Churchill "Halflife2 got halfway around the world before Gabe had a chance to get his pants on." Anon

07-24-03, 10:50 AM	#20
DarkOneX Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kansas Posts: 327	Do you all know for sure that there even is an improved 5900 coming out in Sept? IF this is true I'm selling my FX 5900U now as to get the most $$$ back out of it before this happens and will just buy that Chaintek 5600 Ultra to use in the meantime. __________________ {Core i7-960} {Asus P6X58D-E} {24GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600} {EVGA GeForce GTX 670 FTW 2GB} {SB X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS} {Intel 330 180GB SSD}{(3X) WD Black 1TB HDDs} {(2X) Seagate 750GB HDDs} {WD My Book 4TB HDD} {WD My Book 2TB HDD} {Samsung 20X DVD-RW} {Corsair HX850 psu} {24" Dell U2410 LCD + 20" Dell 2007FP LCD} {Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced case}{Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit}

07-24-03, 10:52 AM	#21
volt Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: /dev/null Posts: 1,556	NVIDIA follows a 6 month cycle, that should tell you something __________________ [b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url] [size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]

07-24-03, 10:57 AM	#22
mikechai Aegophile Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Malaysia Posts: 700	The NV38 plan should give you an idea when the NV40 is going to come out.... __________________ P4 1.6A @ 2382 MHz \| 149x16@1.625V \| Asus P4S533 \| 256MBx2 Samsung PC2700 \| MSI GF2gts 32MB DDR

07-24-03, 11:00 AM	#23
Uttar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,354	Well, nothing is a given yet for the NV40. Heck, the NV38 ( codename-less then ) was in development 3 months ago already, and the plan clearly was to release the NV40 at Comdex. Although yes, that is, and always has been, a best-case scenario Uttar

07-24-03, 11:05 AM	#25
Paul Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 538	Actually, the NV40 launch would be 6-7 months after the NV35, so it would fit perfectly with their traditional release timetable. The NV38 potentially threw a spanner in the works there though... although it could well end up not even being officially announced per se, just slipped onto the shelves. The quieter the release, the more likely the NV40 is close(r). __________________ - Paul